Red Lip Conservatorship

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This week, the girls are singing the praises of a Sudafed deep sleep. Jess unleashes her sexual beast after watching June’s latest Deep Dive Academy lesson on posing and June gets comfortable with uncomfortable conversations. Remember Deep Divers, let go of the idea that everything should come naturally. Try new things and see what happens! In other words, no apologies, manifest, and be seen.

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June Diane Raphael, Alexis Walker, Jessica St. Clair

Jessica St. Clair  00:10

Hi, I’m Jessica St. Clair.


June Diane Raphael  00:12

And I’m June Diane Raphael. And this is The Deep Dive.


Jessica St. Clair  00:17

We’re about to do what women have done for centuries we’re crowded around the fire with our generous hunches. We got babies hanging off our tits, and we’re going to share with you our fears, our joys, our tips on how to stay alive.


June Diane Raphael  00:32

Now Jes, we’re heating a call that no one has made. Not a soul but you’re invited to listen.


Jessica St. Clair  00:39

Absolutely because we make one promise and one promise only we will not Google a thing because frankly, we’re too damn tired. Please get ready to go on The Deep Dive.


June Diane Raphael  00:57

Hi, Jessica.


Jessica St. Clair  00:58

June we back baby.


June Diane Raphael  01:02

How do you do?


Jessica St. Clair  01:04

Well, I’m on a bunch of Sudafed. All right. I’m feeling I got whatever we didn’t even see each other. And we are this connected. And you that I got what you down?


June Diane Raphael  01:21

I’m so sorry, Jes, I didn’t know.


Jessica St. Clair  01:23

It’s okay, because now I found Sudafed, and I don’t know why we’re not on this all the time.


June Diane Raphael  01:27

Sudafed is.


Jessica St. Clair  01:29

Yes, Sudafed is life. It’s really like It’s mommy’s like high, flying very high, like, I know Sudafed, and I love Sudafed. I will say, the nighttime Sudafed like, which puts you to bed, the feeling of drifting off from my side sort of is like what I imagined such a peaceful death looks like it’s like, I know, the feeling is like, I’m not returning, and I’m happy about it. Last night, I think Dan was in the middle of a very serious sentence. And I was just like, off to dreamland. Like I know why Michael Jackson had that man put him to sleep like I get it. And I woke up like ready to take on the world. I have slept that well since I was seven years old. So I was so panicked to have this conversation this morning that I had to have. And of course, I told Bibi, because why should there ever be boundaries between a mother and her 10 year old.


Jessica St. Clair  02:29

I said I feel sick. I gotta have this conversation. I feel sick. Oh, God.


Jessica St. Clair  02:35

Well, I just got my tooth pulled out with a gigantic pliers. So I think you could probably handle this. The dentist was like, I’m so sorry. I have to do this bibi, these are gigantic pliers. I have to use them.


June Diane Raphael  02:47

Oh my God, that’s a nightmare to me.


Jessica St. Clair  02:50

She actually started to laugh hysterically because it was like a cartoon. He was like, I don’t know what to tell you. I don’t know why they make these so big. So sorry, but when she said that to me, I was like, you’re right. Why is it so scary to be honest with each other? Because then of course, I have the conversation, one of my oldest friends. We resolved it with within 15 minutes, because also we’re moms we have a lot to do. We have a lot to do. I didn’t have 45 minutes. I don’t have 45. But I have 15 and we resolved it and now we’re good. But we had to say our truth. But boy, the anticipation of telling your truth to somebody.


June Diane Raphael  03:40

It’s so sickening. It’s, It makes me sick to my stomach.


Jessica St. Clair  03:44

I feel sick. Thinking about it. We have to have no regrets. So if you don’t speak the truth, and you also have to let people speak their truth. Which you might not want to hear. Because you may need to cop to something that doesn’t feel very good. Like I did with my other friend. I did have to say, I didn’t see that email, and I didn’t see that text. And that’s on me. Was I having a really hard time? Was I in beast mode at the moment? Was I overwhelmed? Yes. Did that hurt you? Yes, both things are true. And I gotta say I’m sorry for that, right? But the narrative wasn’t true, wasn’t right, right. Because I do care so deeply. I don’t know. It’s tricky work to be a human and to be honest, but if we don’t have truth and honesty, what the fuck do we have? We got nothing, and we’ve been through too much. And some friendships you don’t take into the next realm.


June Diane Raphael  04:44

I know, and I think that a part of that is really hard for me actually to because I keep a close circle. And they’ve had loss and Mike, I assumed it was just going to be sort of downgraded or like would fall away naturally, but I think and I don’t know if other people feel this way, like when you’ve experienced loss and sudden loss or, like, there’s something about just saying like, this is over, that is very hard for me.


Jessica St. Clair  05:13

I can’t, I’d like everybody and put on my back and have like a possum has 16 babies. And they all right on the back, like, let’s have everybody let’s have everybody even from the garden.


June Diane Raphael  05:25

I know, but it’s not possible, and I know that, and I actually know that so much that I don’t bring a lot of people close it. You know? So, like, that’s what’s just confusing, and yeah.


Jessica St. Clair  05:41

But being honest, is a test because if you are gonna get through it, you have to be honest, right? You have no choice but to be honest, because we regret if we’re not, and then we got to see can this friendship can this relationship handle the honesty? So, if you heard last week’s episode, you know that Paul disappeared for an hour and a half while I was recording, and I asked him to be with our sick child, he was not there. I looked in his calendar, nothing on the docket, asked texted his assistant, she had no idea where he was, you know, it was a true mystery, because the missing persons case, it was missing persons case. Now, when I went back in the room, I took the earphones off, hung them up on their little bracket. And I marched back into the room, my bedroom or son was and Paul was standing right there and turn to me and said, I figured it out. And I said, excuse me. And he goes, I figured it out, he needs a steroid, because when he gets a virus, it turns into crude, which is true, but I was like, I also figured it out. And I was going to the doctor this afternoon at five, which was an appointment I made to get that steroid. And I was like, Where were you? Yeah, where were you? And he was like, yeah, I forgot. He like he was trying to see it.


June Diane Raphael  07:22

So why is it so hard?


Jessica St. Clair  07:23

Why is it so hard for us to say I’m sorry, it’s so hard for me. I’d just say I’m fucked up. Break Even. I couldn’t even hear the words I fucked up. He’s telling me that he has solved the problem of what we were even over here, not here. I said Where were you? And he wouldn’t tell me. He said all I’m telling you is I completely for No, no. And I go, but where were you? Know, where was he? He has never told me where he was. No, no, no, I know. I won’t accept that. I believe my deductive skills have concluded that he was at tennis with some. Now I could text on a tennis chain. And a lot of people who play tennis a lot of people play like pickup gate like I know who these people are. And I could text and say who was Paul, last Thursday at 11am? I know one of you were? I know someone was. But I promise you if that’s where he was. Because to not have his phone. He puts his phone down while I was playing tennis. The timeline matches up but I just believe he was there. You’ve watched enough cold cases watched enough crime shows and same with Lennon. I’ve been waiting for this moment my whole life. Okay, more on that after this quick break.


Jessica St. Clair  07:48

You know, Lennon’s house got broken into and she figured it out. This was way back when when we first got to LA. She got broken into and her the jewelry was taken and some cash. And the police came and they were like, oh, you know, it was a break in. Blah, blah, blah. But Lennon knew because it was broken in from the inside out.


Jessica St. Clair  09:34

Inside Job?


Jessica St. Clair  09:36

That it was the locksmith, that had changed their locks like weeks before. And she and also the direction I mean, this this bitch the direction of the footprints on the window were the wrong, this bitch knew the moment she walked in, this was an inside job. So I don’t know if you know this, but I, um, how did this get made? I had a few words to say about the locksmith community, and I did say, gotta be careful. You have to be careful. And like, are we all just okay with giving our keys to? I just find it to be crazy, a crazy system. And I got such fucking backlash like, Oh my God. I’m a locksmith and I’m not, yeah, I basically call them criminals. But I have had a couple of experiences with locksmiths that would put the fear of God in you, and you, that is why Yeah, it’s like, where do you go? You got to have a friend do is learn it. Learn how to do it yourself. That’s the thing. I would prefer to apprentice under a locksmith and become a locksmith myself. Because how hard could it possibly be? Probably pretty hard, actually. Yeah, but really hard. I mean, again, we don’t want to get word backlash from I know our deep divers who are locksmiths, but most of them are probably listening to How Did This Get Made? Not our show, but but yeah, I there’s, there’s a lot of, I know you guys log a lot of hours watching these shows, and I do think that it comes in handy. You know, at times.


June Diane Raphael  11:19

Sure does.


Jessica St. Clair  11:20

It sure does, like I honestly, you know, obviously don’t watch any of them, and so I am the victim, you know, that will be unaware. I’ll get on the rowboat. You know, don’t get on a rowboat if Dan ever says want to go on a rowboat at night? I’ll say no, don’t know. I mean.


June Diane Raphael  11:39

I’ve told you this Jes, but like I made Paul promise on our wedding day that he would never murder me. And I know that was wild, but I was like, I just need to hear him say it. I know we’re committing to other things. I just need to hear the new heat at the moment. Things get go sideways. You’re not picking up a knife and cutting my throat like I just need to because it’s so often the spouse. Well, I always think about this this case in New Hampshire where my parents are was like an 85 year old couple. This is so dark, but they one of them killed the other one with a coffee mug because I had a heart would ever did. And I get into it. He goes don’t make me get a coffee mug. Like when she got off, she got off. Because I think probably the jury was like, god. It’s so dark. It’s so dark after living with someone for you know, 55 years. You know, she just took her mug and just, you know that was it. That was it for that person. It’s so sad. Okay, can we pivot and talk about my lips?  Oh my God. This is what I kept this whole time we’ve been talking Jes, I’ve literally been like, wait, there’s something I wanted to do, right? Of course it was my perimenopause, I can’t remember anything. Jess, Jessica, Jessica, what’s your middle name? By the way? I don’t even know if.


Jessica St. Clair  11:41

I don’t have one.


June Diane Raphael  11:49

Oh, that’s interesting. Jes, you didn’t have like a confirmation name?


Jessica St. Clair  12:43

I took Quinn but just Jessica St.Clear is the perfect name, my mother knew it, we kept it at that.


June Diane Raphael  13:26

Kept it at that, okay, Jessica St. Clair. You had an event last week. And you sent me pictures of yourself in a black so I saw the Deep Divers. I saw them before they went online. Okay. And I was a part of like curating my best photos. I want to spend the rest of this the time we have together talking about it. Please. You rocked there’s so many things. You rocked a Veronica beard blazer, pants, pantsuit, but with no shirt, and no bra nothing nothin never done that.


Jessica St. Clair  14:18

Never in my life, ever in my life happy, Abby Rod telling me to do that. Nope. Never in my life. Because I was like I have this black suit and this is definitely going to be a lesson for the Academy. I had this black suit and I’m like how do I make this nighttime, how do I this is because you can wear this suit to a to a meeting to a daytime meeting. She said she take no shirt take shirt off. And then she showed me how to tape which is very easy. And you can use medical tape,  athletic.


June Diane Raphael  14:48

You telling me Jes, I’ve been taping for years.


Jessica St. Clair  14:51

Honey, honey.


June Diane Raphael  14:52

I’ve been taping for years. Okay.


Jessica St. Clair  14:56

But really what motivated this hot pick was a lesson that we had in the Deep Dive Academy, which was about posing. It was the most requested lesson we’ve we’ve had and they said, please can June teach us all how to pose for pictures? This was a masterclass. It was like Mozart teaching a child how to play the piano. I am telling you, Okay, listen, this is not a plug. This is a public service announcement. You guys just joined for the month, I don’t care if you join for the month, I don’t care if you fucking join for the month and then cancel. The moment you join, you have to see this video. I have been in this business for many years. I do not know how to pose I thought I would never learn, and June takes you through four easy steps. But they’re shocking. They are of how they’re shocking. There’s a mantra, there is a way you stick your ass out that hurts the base of your spine, there is a way a special way you hold your hands and making shapes. I was a student and then I had to edit it, so I watched it 600 times. And then I thought let me put these skills to the test. I was a changed person. Oh, don’t look down the barrel, that’s the other one. I was changed. So I and also during the last week’s lesson, you put a red lip on me. So I said, why don’t I combine these two lessons and see what happens? Well, I was changed from a molecular level, and I was able to I don’t know for the first time ever, like not smile, like you’re lucky to have me on camera. That’s I brought that energy. I don’t know where it came from, but if you guys you have to just watch this lesson and try it because boy oh boy was I sexual, I was sexual. I felt great, I felt great. Guys, we all have this in us, it’s here so committee because I can see a world in which you were like, okay, I’m gonna really work on sticking my ass out all of the things that we learned together, but to throw that red lip on. That is such a bold choice, and it wasn’t, first of all, I need to talk to Alexis about what the color red lips was because it was. I know what it is so yeah, but it is it is a lot to walk out. On camera with a red lip. It takes a lot to wear it and to not have it wear us. It requires dominate it and to what didn’t leave with it. Yes, it does. So should you just say to Alexis, I want to read like I’m yes, no, you’re going too fast. You’re going too fast. Like what was this? Alexis has been trying to put me in a red lipstick she meant to see I’d like to talk to her about it. Well, actually June. I did talk to Alexis about it. And here’s what she had to say, Deep Divers, we are so lucky because we were able to get on the phone with Alexis and hear her thoughts about the red lip. Now Alexis Walker is my makeup artist. She’s been my makeup artist since I was 29 years old. She has been laying the groundwork for that red lip. Since the first day we met when I came in and I had given myself a black guy by with my hair, my hair dryer. My first job in Hollywood. So Alexis, tell me about, tell me about the power of a bold lip from a makeup artist’s perspective. When you see you put one on somebody you put one on yourself how it transforms a woman and why?


Alexis Walker  19:19

Well, I actually think it’s a little bit more like dream interpretation. Like the red lip means something to you, but it means something totally different to somebody else. So I think generally speaking, it’s totally unapologetic, right like there’s no have z’s, there’s no I can hide behind this I didn’t really mean that. You know, like you are fully fully showing up because people are you can’t hide behind anything like people are looking at your face, and there’s also a part of it that’s like you’re claiming something, you know, and so I think that when and I’ll get back to the it means something different to different people in a second but I think for you what I’ve seen And and it made me so proud of you because I think I just I obviously have been in your face and in your life for since we were really women girls, you know, babies. Yeah, we were babies. And I think what I, what I saw is that you sort of struggled with what it meant to be feminine, like, you’re like, that was sort of like a secret handshake club outside of your realm of understanding, you know, and it’s always been more comfortable lately, for you to be like, Oh, the Hugh Grant haircut, you know, which is super funny. And, you know, yeah, it’s, it was so funny. But it’s also like, it’s easier to kind of claim that than it is to go, like, I actually have other things that I want to claim and like show up at, which is like being sexy, being You know, it’s almost like a sexual advance the red lip in a weird way, like, it’s not to the world, but it’s the level of like, you know, who do I think I am? To show up like this? Right, like, there’s, does that resonate at all with you?


Jessica St. Clair  20:56

Yes, and look at me, you know, as I’ve always said, I don’t like to feel like I’m dressed in a way or putting on airs. You know, it’s like, when you wear a red lip, you’re saying, like, I, I like to be looked at, because people are gonna look at me, I deserve to be looked at I deserve to be seen. So I think it was really weird that day, when I showed up to your house, I was like, let’s put a red lip on. I think you were probably thinking, I don’t know if she’ll fully go for it. But there was really no hesitation that day. I don’t know what it is. It’s like you had said to me, Alexis, it’s almost like I don’t really care anymore. what anyone thinks. And that feels like freedom.


Alexis Walker  21:36

That’s what it is. And so I don’t think putting the lipstick on, I don’t think you suddenly put the red lipstick on and like red lipstick gave you it’s like a dumbo feather, you know, like, it gives you this bully like this actualized thing, I think when you made the choice to do it. That’s the part that made me feel like a badass, you know, because it’s, and that’s when we’re like unfuck winnable, you know, like, it’s like, it’s, you’re not waiting for someone’s response. You know, like in the past, you’re, you’re the you’re your superpower is connecting people and amplifying people’s talents and sharing with others. And finding the person that’s the best of this. And you, you’re wonderful at that, and it’s in its and you share it, you know, but also, I think you didn’t for a long time, like you didn’t trust yourself, and so there was a lot of like, looking outside of yourself, like, is this right? Like, am I getting it right? Am I? Is it acceptable? You know, and I think when you come to the point where you’re like, I don’t know, if it’s like, I don’t care anymore, or if it’s just like, you know, you know, I think this podcast has been super healing for you. I’m so happy that you’ve done it. I think you, you come forward and you share all the things and I think not only are you received but you’re loved even more for it, and I think the more that we practice that and we internalize it, the more we can like, you know, we’re less impacted by people’s reactions to something.


Jessica St. Clair  22:57

That’s really important what you just said, it’s like, the more we share our vulnerabilities, the more we share what we feel like is not perfect, the more we are accepted for that, which is what this experience of this podcast has been and with my best friends, that’s what I feel is total acceptance. The more we don’t care what other people think about us. Yes. Like, that’s what releases us from that prison of worrying.


Alexis Walker  23:25

And then it’s like, if it comes let it, if it goes let it, if you fucking love it good, if you’re not into it, that’s okay. So there’s this thing I wanted to share with you Fran Drescher put a I think the quote, she wrote this post, I think a few days before the negotiation, did you read her thing?


Jessica St. Clair  23:42

No, tell me.


Alexis Walker  23:43

So she’s doing a video and she’s putting on red lipstick. Like, she has no makeup on. She’s putting on red lipstick, and she says, I’m not angry. I’m not, you know, I’m just feeling confident, and she says I don’t need to emulate a male energy to lead I can lead with wisdom and empathy. I can lead and I can be me. And it was like that’s what I think it is the unapologetic, I think red lipstick is you have to be seen you have to be comfortable with being seen and maybe not being received. And  like those pictures of your soul. You’re so beautiful because you’re you know, you’re Christie Brinkley, but you’re but you was no but that but I think that it was almost like a celebration. Like I hope that you felt that. You know, I’m sure you felt that when you just moved in the world. But also the response to your posting that it was like a celebration of you because people are seeing someone who you’re just sitting, you’re literally you’re not asking any question, like it’s not a conversation. You’re just embodying it, you know, and that’s hot. And it’s also like other people can do it, you know, and I just, I just wanted to share that because it’s meaningful. You know, I’ve seen the journey and it wasn’t easily one. You know, it was hard one I think for you.


June Diane Raphael  24:52

Yeah, well, I did encourage all of our Deep Divers to try out something different because sometimes, and you listen, your whole career and your next phase of your career is going to be really mind blowing to because you’re even going on the inside out, but has been about giving people the confidence to go and do a very vulnerable job, you know, acting is not rocket science, but you are putting yourself out there in a way that is like really intense. And for me, you know, you were the person doing my makeup when I was, you know, acting out my cancer journey, you know, and season three, and you were there when, you know, I got diagnosed, you know, all of the things. And I think that you have taken makeup to a level of giving me confidence to try new things to be a different person to try on different, you know, ways of moving in the world, and that is a real gift. And I love the fact that we can use something that a lot of people would say, Oh, that’s so that’s so shallow. It’s like no, actually, it’s very, very deep. It’s very, very deep. How we care for ourselves in that way.


Alexis Walker  26:09

Yeah. And I think, you know, the next, you know, I was I was thinking about this, I mentioned it to you the other day, but the you know, I worked with Joni Mitchell when she was re recording. It was a documentary about circle game, and she.


Jessica St. Clair  26:22

If June was on this call, unfortunately, she had technical difficulties, but she would just start bawling at the mention of her name.


Alexis Walker  26:29

Well, what I’ll tell you is that for her, that was the one thing she wanted, like she didn’t care what else was going on her face. It was her her red lip, it was like an orangey red. And she called it her Red Badge of Courage. And so then there becomes like, for her, it was like, give me the thing that makes me feel like that. Like, if you felt like a badass. So maybe now next time, you need to feel like a badass because we don’t walk around feeling like that all the time, like we have to continue to have that. That talk with ourselves, but you know, so maybe the next time you’re feeling like you need a little, you know, a little courage.


Jessica St. Clair  26:59

A little courage, a little courage. Well, I love you, friend, and thank you for being such an important part of my journey to becoming a sexual beast.


Alexis Walker  27:10

I’m proud of you. I love you.


June Diane Raphael  27:11

I love you too, Fred. So that’s how it happened. You’re born for it. Jessica. You’re born for fucking Grace Kelly, like Grace Kelly, bless Carolyn beset. That’s who you are. It’s sad to have to wait 47 years to fully come into your own. But when you do when the stars align. It’s like, it’s like, everything makes sense. I know we sound like crazy people, but I this has everyone has to understand that there is a talk about beast, there is a sexual beast that needs to be released from every single one of you listening. And you need to try different things to get there, guys. So Jessica, take me back. I still need you’re going so fast. I can’t under the way show up.


June Diane Raphael  28:04

And I’m sure through the years you’ve never let her put one on.


Jessica St. Clair  28:04

First of all that hair was done at the dryer looks fucking great. So I go to the dry bar and pop over there to her beautiful, beautiful condo. And I say we’re gonna do a red lip. And I think she was assuming that I would check it out. Now she also did a bold lip lesson, which has not aired yet for the Academy. So she had tried one on me. So I had seen.


Jessica St. Clair  28:06

Never, never. I did it once I let her do it for an interview and then I verbally abused her afterwards. I was like, How dare you do this to me? And she was like, Oh my God, you said you wanted it. And I was like I never want it and never do it to me again. So I, so she did the makeup we were talking and I just at that point, I was like I’m not wearing a bra with a with a suit. So like with faux with right, let it rip and I knew, Lennon and honestly, the whole look work to the point where even Lennon  didn’t freak out. I walked in to we were we were hosting these beautiful words that Humanitas Awards, which celebrate writing that lifts up humanity, and so, you know, obviously wasn’t about my boobs being you know, precariously out or this red lip but it also wasn’t about it wasn’t not about that.


June Diane Raphael  29:24

I think they were also lifting up humanity. I’m serious. I got a lift. I got a human lift from, I felt more human.


Jessica St. Clair  29:37

I can’t tell you guys, you got to try new things. Try new things.


June Diane Raphael  29:45

So it goes on so the lip goes on. Do you debate the color red or she’s just like this is it?


Jessica St. Clair  29:52

No, I didn’t even look at it. The color went on and she goes let me take a picture. And I was like, Okay, and then I, and then I used our techniques and then at that one point she said, Oh my God, are we shooting a porn? She goes, something’s happening, like it felt, you know like hocus pocus. She was like, are we what’s coming out of you? And I I couldn’t tell her it just was because I was using your lessons and then for me to post that is very difficult usually but I was like, Oh no, we must share it.


June Diane Raphael  30:30

You have to, you must.


Jessica St. Clair  30:33

Who I had to, my favorite thing about your husband is like he sees those pics of you and like he repost them just have his own, like multiple ones. And then like, I’m having my own back and forth on his page about how good you are. Like, really just to recreate that. It’s so sweet dress. It seems like look at this on my mic. I think you I am yes. I love that. We had a college friend who just wrote like, I know, we’re family, but I gotta say, […] mochi that got him going in the downstairs as an I.


June Diane Raphael  31:16

Listen, I think that I think that sometimes, and this was a part of my lesson in my master class. I think sometimes we feel like everything should come naturally. And if it doesn’t come naturally, not for not for us. And that was like the most profound part of my offering. If I may, yes. Is like I really asked my students to let go have that idea that it should feel good. That it should, that finding your sensuality or sexuality or whatever it is, should be like, seamless, comfortable. To me, I’m like, let’s be a little uncomfortable and see what happens. And then begin the transformation. I be Yes, like the werewolf. Yes.


Jessica St. Clair  32:16

And you said something at the beginning of the lesson there truly shocked me, which is that you don’t like it? You It’s work. Okay. That was a shock to me. To me, you’ve seen me on red carpets. Like I you saw me walk out of a red carpet one. I said that was a hot boss move. And I was just like, I’m not doing this right now.


June Diane Raphael  32:38

But I, that’s sort of the reason why, like I knew I wasn’t in the mental space ticket picture. And so we bailed on it. And, but like, I approach it with the same amount of fear and anxiety as anyone else, I really, really hate it. The amount of work that goes in, I get angry, you know, but ultimately, like I, I have accepted. I mean, isn’t that sort of like the Buddhist principle of just accepting suffering.


Jessica St. Clair  33:14

Radical acceptance.


June Diane Raphael  33:15

And then once we do, maybe there’s ease and room for joy. Who knows?


Jessica St. Clair  33:21

God dammit, I liked having a picture where I thought mommy looks good. Like your looks, we should enjoy how we look and how we feel. And that we took a risk and it paid off and that we liked how we felt.


June Diane Raphael  33:38

That is what emanated from your photo. It was I won’t say the mantra gotta go to the Academy of find out what the mantra is. But that mantra I could feel in my bones is very powerful.


Jessica St. Clair  33:51

Yeah, from across the city.


June Diane Raphael  33:53

That’s right, when he cites the west side.


Jessica St. Clair  33:56

Okay, it’s time to take a break, we will be right back after this.


June Diane Raphael  34:20

I know we spent pretty much all of 2022 talking about nails and acrylic tips and how they were changing us on in our DNA. And I believe the same is happening with the red lip.


Jessica St. Clair  34:37

Yes. And I would like to apologize because my nails actually weren’t done, and that was my mistake.


June Diane Raphael  34:45

But you know what, let when you looked when we’re looking at those lips, and we’re looking at this cleavage, we’re not focused on the males.


Jessica St. Clair  34:54

We’re not but that someone did. They said, well, first of all, someone said you’re no longer in a nail conservatorship, you’re in a in a red lip conservatorship, which made me laugh so, I just also wanted to I screenshot some comments that people left from the Academy of what they what they were getting out of the out of the lesson that just made me laugh so hard. Hold on, I maybe don’t know. All right, fuck it. I can’t find it. But listen, just like I said, I don’t care if you guys canceled the next month. Just get over there and get that lesson because we have to get our photo taken. We do listen, like.


Jessica St. Clair  35:35

I harken back to the retreat I went on that was run by my dear friends […] If you’re new deep diver, yes, please know that about eight years ago, my friends or maybe it was a day over a decade now. My best friends took their close friends and ran over a retreat. A wellness retreat that they facilitated, even though arguably like they needed more help than anyone else there so that’s something that happened and the retreat was titled NAMBS and NAMBS  stood for No Apologies Manifest Be Seen, and that’s what I felt looking at those photos it was so like big NAMBS  energy no apologies manifest and be seen these a right, be seen, and that’s what a red lip does. It says I would like to be seen. I just want to read some comments from from the from our students. This advice was worth more than my college education. Had mistry I appreciate the cumulative nature of our lessons. We’re learning how to light ourselves. We’re learning how to dress we’re learning how to pose dot dot dots the curriculum she believes she does bill no, I’m like, where are we going? It’s what a fabulous lesson perfect as we approach the holiday season.


June Diane Raphael  37:16

Agreed, agreed.


Jessica St. Clair  37:20

Lead us teach us. I don’t love to have my picture taken. But it’s become very apparent that photographers don’t like taking my picture. So having the skills and knowledge to serve a still look as attractive as me in real life is a vital tool to master. I will look amazing in defiance.


June Diane Raphael  37:40

You know, it’s so funny. I actually don’t. This wasn’t in my lesson I’m gonna share with the listeners. I need to like shut out the energy of a photographer.


Jessica St. Clair  37:54

Oh, yes.


June Diane Raphael  37:56

Okay. It’s like an actress we both know, told me this about being on the red carpet once and I thought it was so powerful. She said, I don’t start walking, like I don’t move from one spot to the next. Until they told me to. And I was like, wow, because she’s just planting herself. And is like, I’m here. You can take my picture or not. But tell me to move. Because otherwise I’m here. I was amazing. But I really can’t like the relationship is between me and the lens. You know what I mean? It’s not really between me and whoever’s behind the lens. And when you wear a red lip, it’s not for everyone else. It’s for you. And everyone else is grateful to be around it and a part of it but it is not for everyone else. It’s for you. I think the interesting thing about a red lip is it’s it’s also saying to the world like I am willing to work this red and talk and drink and eat and be a human in a red. And you have to respect that.


Jessica St. Clair  39:25

Taylor Swift does a three hour concert I see it second time. The movie a second time. I saw that six hours long.


June Diane Raphael  39:32

And she’s red most of the show or.


Jessica St. Clair  39:34

The whole show, the whole show and do they touch her? I mean her set her changes are not more than you know 30 seconds but yeah, they touch her up but she’s rocks that red God I think so much about Travis. Can we just touch down on Travis just for a sec? Hey, yeah, I mean, we pretty much have a weekly segment on Travis sorry. I have to because I’m sure you’ve seen it but maybe you haven’t. He was asked if he’s in love with Taylor, and he said, I’m gonna let my personal details be personal, but the smile he gave told the story. So I don’t know if this was real, I don’t know what I saw. But I because I’m on the Travis, Taylor side of Tiktok like, it’s now the algorithm has learned me when I like, okay. That’s the great thing about AI. Yeah, they’ve really understood my likes and interests. And what I saw video and I believe it was Taylor was already in the car. And Travis was getting in, after her. And through as he’s closing the door through the slot, that door hinge. You see her pull him, pull him. Oh, toward her. Okay it is hot. Okay, I got a block out the whole afternoon. It is hot. So yeah, I mean, I don’t know like why in these in these troubled times I’m like, I’m so I am like really dissociating with the two of them, and I’m just like, it’s just so good. Because, you know, I’ve said this before, but Taylor to me really does represent like that awkward, tall girl in high school that I really identify with. You know, I wanted to play with me as a little kid. That was one of her lyrics, mastermind.


June Diane Raphael  41:41

And like, she’s, she’s linky she’s, and she’s always been a bit of a nerd.


Jessica St. Clair  41:48

She’s herself, always.


June Diane Raphael  41:51

Nice, so appreciated.


Jessica St. Clair  41:52

I do too, and that he appreciates it. I there was another video someone took creepily in a bar. They weren’t together, but he was a Taylor Swift song was playing and Travis had his phone up. He was recording it for her to send. He’s so she’s he’s so proud of her. Well, they’re both at the top of their game too. That’s what I love knowing anything about the chiefs. But BB and I’ve decided we have to become chiefs fans. Now. You are deep in art, to deepen our knowledge.


June Diane Raphael  42:25

And knowing that chiefs are doing great, like the chiefs of the best quarterback in the NFL. And like him and and Travis Patrick mahomes and Travis Kelce. I mean, they’re they’re a dynamic. I mean, they are legends already. So Ernie done a deep dive on Patrick and his wife, they were highschool sweethearts, they went to the prom.


Jessica St. Clair  42:45

Oh, let me tell you, why don’t you do yourself a favor and watch the Netflix series quarterback? Because they follow like four quarterbacks they follow? I can’t remember who the other two are. But they follow. Patrick Mahomes and you get way into Patrick Mahomes’ world in the life. And it is really cool, because well you know that his wife was a division one soccer player. And now they both invested in the like Kansas City women’s team. So I must first grade school sweetheart, I love much respect given me Friday night like Friday Night Lights. It’s giving me all of it. It’s given me here.


June Diane Raphael  43:31

And I love about them is the two of them together, like they clearly connected over sports. And he was in love with her for so long and like I if I’m remembering correctly, like she never was interested. But they’re both athletes, you know, and it sets aside a little bit his level of discipline. And he does something I’m just gonna say this because I was thinking about this on like, just a bigger strategic level. But he talks in my documentary about how when he’s getting hit by the other team, like they’re sacking him, after the plays over if he’s down or he’s almost down. He’ll pat them on the back and talk to them and say good play like great job keep hustling. cheering on the other team and he talks about why psychologically he does that and connects with them.


Jessica St. Clair  44:31



June Diane Raphael  44:33

Because it because he establishes an emotional connection with them. They are not going to hit him as hard as they would have.


Jessica St. Clair  44:43

Oh my god that is like next level psychology.


June Diane Raphael  44:48

I know, that’s what I’m saying these athletes at this level like they are in his level of discipline. You see this man in the gym you think like oh yeah, these quarterbacks are working out and you know, whatever, the way this guy is going out it in the gym is it was shocking to me it was absolutely shocking to me and, yeah his mom was on Frankie fan I met her […] no know we would be a welcome addition at the thanksgiving table we know so much about them already. I know but do yourself a favor and watch that I don’t know what this episode was Jess, this was really Ryerson riddles and rubber have a tab but I am so glad we got into your lip. And I think starting next week, we’re gonna have a lot to talk about in terms of the holidays because the season is behind us and thank God.


Jessica St. Clair  45:50

Listen and I wanted to bring up full tree and real tree I am, I am dabbling with putting up my decorations before Thanksgiving. I know that’s so crazy, I probably won’t do it, but I’m really like thinking on the early decorating side of Tiktok and I’m shocked with how many people do it. I don’t love will be up. I’m like December 1st loyalist. I know you are and I I’m probably going to be in that camp of boy am I tempted? Oh boy, my temple the nice thing about this year? Is that Thanksgivings earlier.


June Diane Raphael  46:31

Is that true? Great.


Jessica St. Clair  46:32

We get another week, basically.


June Diane Raphael  46:34

Yes to like, let me just check.


Jessica St. Clair  46:37

I’m going to date Well, I do it the day after I do.


June Diane Raphael  46:40

No, I do to it. That’s what I’m saying. Okay, yeah. So So Thanks. Because on the 23rd from looking at my calendar, I put it on my calendar. You better believe I fucking did. I’m purchasing my tree on the 25th. It’s going up on the 26th. So that’s some act we had a whole extra week with the tree this year. So exciting. thrilling. It’s thrilling. So much to talk about Jes.


Jessica St. Clair  47:04

Let me say one more thing, one more thing. If if you guys are listening, and you’ve got some weirdness going on with somebody, can you reach out? Can we get honest and give it a shot? Because let’s not have that. It’s like having something plugged in that you don’t need plugged in it’s draining your energy. Can I just work through it be brave. If Bibi can have her tiny tooth pulled out by a gigantic cartoon size of pliers, you can have the conversation do it, do it love you guys. Okay Deep Divers, see you next week.



The DEEP DIVE is produced by Lemonada media Jessica St. Clair and June Diane Raphael. Our producers Ana Cecilia, our associate producer is Dani Matias and ours supervising producer is Jamela Zarha Williams our engineer is Johnny Vince Evans. Additional Lemonada support from Steve Nelson, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Special thanks to Anne Geddes for a cover art and Lennon Parham. For her sweet sweet vocals. The best way to support us is to rate and review. Follow The Deep Dive wherever you get your podcasts or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.


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