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Who is the truest New Yorker on Sex and the City? The hosts of 2 Black Girls, 1 Rose are here to make Aminatou Sow choose between Carrie Bradshaw and Samantha Jones. Justine Kay is Team Samantha – a sex-obsessed PR executive who lives in the Meatpacking District and whose girlboss ways Justine argues scream New York. Natasha Scott-Reichel comes representing Team Carrie – a fashion-loving sex columnist living on the Upper East Side who Natasha says embodies a NYC “It Girl.” Whom will Aminatou declare the truest New Yorker on Sex and the City?

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Natasha Scott-Reichel, Aminatou Sow, Justine Kay, Speaker 1

Aminatou Sow  00:02

I’m Aminatou Sow, and I’m a writer who loves pop culture. So welcome to Pop Culture Debate Club from Lemonada and the BBC. We bring on some of the funniest, smartest folks in the biz to go head to head over TV, music and movies that we love. And because I’m the judge, I get to choose the winner. You today, we’re discussing two of the most polarizing women in cable TV history. Carrie Bradshaw and Samantha Jones, from Sex and the City filmed in New York City from 1996 to 2004 the show’s location became an important backdrop to many of the plot lines throughout the series. But what does it actually mean to be a New Yorker? Is it an attitude? Is it how long you’ve lived here? Is it a state of mind? In this episode, we’ll pit two Sex and the City characters against popular New York City tropes to determine who is the truest New Yorker, Carrie or Samantha.

 

Aminatou Sow  01:01

Here with me today to break it down, are the hosts of two black girls, one rose, Justine Kay and Natasha Scott-Reichel. Justine and Natasha have been recapping Sex and the City episode by episode. Their season two deep dive kicks off this week. Justine, Natasha, welcome to the show.

 

Justine Kay  01:16

Thanks for having us excited.

 

Aminatou Sow  01:19

Um, before we get into it, I am wondering if you could each tell me what your gateway into this diabolical show is. Natasha, do you want to go first?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  01:33

Sure, yeah. So I grew up with a mom who watched the show, and I’d be like in the other room watching her watch the show had sex in the title, so it wasn’t for me. I was too young, I guess, but I’m pretty sure, I mean, my sister would like, sneak some episodes, but I didn’t really watch it on my own until, I think it was college, where I just, like, binged. It just ripped through the seasons. And now I watch the show kind of like a comfort show, like Thursday night, late night, my husband’s gone to bed. I’m up, like, Pinteresting or something, and I’ll just have it on in the background. I’ve seen all the episodes. I know what’s coming. It’s a pretty formulaic show. You know, Carrie. Every episode is, you know, deep diving into a question. If you’re watching the ladies go off on dates. It’s funny, it’s fun. The fashion, there’s like, always something to look at, like good fashion, hot guys and so, yeah, it’s just, like a very comforting show. Now in my as I’m in my my mid 30s, I’m married, so I’m a little bit different than when I was first watching the show in college. But yeah, it just keeps me warm and fuzzy late night.

 

Aminatou Sow  02:43

My comfort show is Sopranos and I know, and everybody’s always like, that’s really heavy. But I’m like, yeah, you’re watching Sociopaths too, as comfort. That’s amazing.

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  02:54

That’s great. I love a true crime.

 

Aminatou Sow  02:56

We’re doing the same thing. What about you, Justine? What’s your gateway into Sex and the City?

 

Justine Kay  03:03

Yeah, I did not have a big sister. I’m the oldest, but I did have a carpool where the moms would talk about it and so on. The carpool run moms would talk about it. We also grew up in the New Jersey area, so we were privy to z1 100 in the morning, and they would talk about it on z1 100. And I was always very curious about the show, and always wanted to be part of the conversation. And now I am part of the conversation for living, which is so crazy. And I also had have a mom who really appreciates beauty and fashion, and beauty and fashion, it’s one of the standout shows at the time, and really dictated a lot of the trends that were going on in the early 2000s and mid 90s. And so I started watching behind my parents back I must have been like 13, and was keeping up with the seasons and keeping up with what was going on the storylines whenever Samantha had cancer, that’s when I started watching,

 

Aminatou Sow  04:00

Wow. Okay, and can you tell me also both of your experiences with New York City? Are you long time residents? Are you from New York? What’s the deal?

 

Justine Kay  04:08

We’re both originally from New Jersey. We met in high school, so North Jersey about 3540 minutes outside of the city. So New York was always like my backyard. My grandparents, cousins lived in the Bronx. I spent a lot of time, a lot of my childhood in the Bronx as well, but I moved to New York officially when I was 23 so right after college, I’m now 34 so I’ve lived here 11 years. I’ve exclusively lived in Harlem. I went to Columbia for grad school. I worked at Columbia, so I’ve like my life has squarely been like Uptown Manhattan for a while now. I love that. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I did you know young 20s downtown kid run around in Lower East Side the villages. Me packing, clubbing, all that stuff. My husband, I met in 2018 he was living in Williamsburg at the time, so I spent a lot of time in Williamsburg. Work for a little.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:00

Bit a long distance relationship. Oh yes, Harlem to Williamsburg relationship that worked out that I love to talk to you about that separately. I’m like the whole thing.

 

Justine Kay  05:16

Love New York, greatest city on Earth.

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  05:18

Yeah, I think New York is also the greatest city on earth. I love love. Love it so much. From North Jersey. However, I lived there for two and a half years. I will never go back unless you are very wealthy. New York is just it’s just not the place for me. It takes too many of my comforts away from me, but it is the place where I met my fiance. I met my fiance at work in New York City and midtown, and it’s also the place where I’ve learned so many lessons. So I look at New York City very fondly.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:46

Well, let’s get into it. So Carrie lives on the Upper East Side. Samantha is in the meat packing district. What does that already tell you about? You know, like, what are we signaling about what kind of women these are.

 

Justine Kay  06:00

I know, yeah, Upper East Side is not a neighborhood I frequent that much myself. I don’t have any friends who live over there, even. But yeah, Upper East Side Carrie, you know, she’s a woman of society, Baron William, even though she’s she gives kind of more downtown energy to me. It never really made sense to me that she lived in the Upper East Side, but, sure, but yeah, she lives in her little like, walk up brownstone and Upper East Side. She shops at Manolo Blahnik, like it’s a woman of wealth and luxury, but it was always just, like, funny, because Carrie was also, like, broke, always too. So her living in the Upper East Side never really, like, checked in my brain for who that woman’s supposed to be. But she has money, and she’s into fashion, and so that, I guess, makes sense for upper east.

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  06:49

Yeah, and meatpacking. She’s trendy. She’s going where all the up and coming people are going to be. Samantha is there no matter how old she is. She’s on the club scene.

 

Aminatou Sow  07:00

It’s also just interesting how those neighborhoods have changed since the show has, you know, like since the show’s made, so the signaling is different. But I also have to say that living in a neighborhood and partying in another neighborhood, I really respect that I was like, film is home for me. I do all my nonsense in another neighborhood, and then I come home to rest. So, you know, I was like in this part of Brooklyn, they know me as a good citizen. They do not know me as a good citizen in lower parts of Manhattan, I think that’s a like point for Carrie there. Also in real life, the actors who play Carrie and Samantha, Sarah, Jessica Parker and Kim Cattrall have been publicly feuding, you know, or, like, if you would believe the tabloids, I’m like, is it a feud, or is it indifference? Like, at this point, who cares? And, you know, but it definitely got heated enough that Kim Cattrall did not film scenes with any of her former castmates in the show’s reboot, and just like that. And, you know. And she went as far to say in an interview, I don’t want to be in the situation for even an hour where I’m not enjoying myself, which is my motto in life, that’s perfect. And everybody can speculate on what happened, you know, and you know, like what we know. But here’s the deal, whose side of the feud Are you on of the real life actresses, not the characters.

 

Justine Kay  08:24

I feel like I’ve kind of always been very open to Kim Cottrell side. I know she at least what they say. So sources say, I don’t know for sure, but sources say she was really big on, like, trying to negotiate her salary. She was a huge star of the show. I mean, the show was definitely Carrie show, but it’s also very much Samantha’s. And she wanted a little piece of that bread, that that movie, you know, the shows were making, and so she negotiated. And I know it kind of, they say it started with, like, money, money talks. And I’m always down for a woman trying to fight for what’s hers, so that I appreciate. And I don’t think, I think, you know, a lot of the tabloid stuff kind of made it bigger, and now they’re cat fighting and they hate each other. But it really could be just as she’s always said, We’re professionals, we’re actresses, we’re co workers. We don’t have to be friends. And she was, you know, trying to get her money and then just set boundaries for herself in terms of when she was done with the show, she was done with the show, and she’s like, we love boundaries.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:20

We love boundaries.

 

Justine Kay  09:23

Of course, I think I’m gonna take the side of who took who in the in this friendship, divorce, and Kim Cattrall took Patricia Field. And I’m a big Patricia Field fan. Patricia fields all over Kim cattralls Instagram. And Patricia Field is the stylist of Sex and the City from like, episode like five, season one, something like that, up until the very end.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:49

Right, and she came back to style.  Kim Cottrell, specifically for for her scenes and just like that, which is very, very chic, I would say, yeah. Well, you know, people also just love to identify with the women of this cast. And I find that, like amusing, but also baffling, because, you know, like, I’m like, I watch Sopranos and I’m not identifying with anyone. But, you know, requisite question on the show, Which character do you two most identify with?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  10:21

Definitely Samantha for me, yeah, definitely.

 

Aminatou Sow  10:23

Why? Tell me why?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  10:25

For sure, she’s really open and candid about sex and in a way that’s not fearful, which I not only appreciate, but also am as well. And she also, I believe that Samantha’s nucleus is friendship, and that has been my nucleus for a very long time, until I started, like, wedding planning recently, like my nucleus of my life has been my friends. And I think that’s the same with Samantha.

 

Justine Kay  10:57

I kind of always struggle with this, because I feel like I’m a little bit of Carrie Samantha or not.

 

Aminatou Sow  11:04

You want to give me the you want to give me the astrology version, what’s the moon? What’s the sun, what’s the rising? We’ll take it. We’ll take it. Okay, I don’t even know what those the moon rising, those things mean, but I love that I’m a conversant enough that I can pretend that I know I know nothing.

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  11:21

But I’m really glad that I had you fooled. I think with Carrie, like, she’s quirky, she has, like, eclectic fashion, I think I’ve always kind of identified with her in those ways. I like to think I’m less messy than Carrie is. So that’s where I’m, like, draw the line. I’m not a Carrie, but Charlotte, Charlotte I identify with because she’s kind of like the hopeless romantic. She’s a little bit more. She’s like the prude one, you know, she’s the I think I’m definitely like a late bloomer. I was not like a boy crazy girl growing up or anything like that. So I think I kind of, you know, ear towards Charlotte in that way. My husband was, like my first love and only love, like, type of thing. And then with Miranda, she just always has, like, a good head on her shoulders. I think she’s a bit more she’s the cynical one more pragmatic. I like to think that I kind of move and operate like her as well, like, cut and dry, not trying to, like, spend too much waste of time with guys who don’t work. And I feel like I’ve kind of wheeled and dealed in those ways. So, yeah, I think those three women, Samantha, I love, I appreciate, I just don’t think I have that, like, sexual, fiery, like person as part of myself. I wish I did, but I think no.

 

Aminatou Sow  12:37

Listening to both of you talk. I’m like the writers did such a good job having four distinct archetypes, you know, like, on some on some shows, like, everybody’s kind of the same person. And here you’re like, oh no, they’re like, everybody is a very different, oh yeah, very defined character. And that, like, you know, I’m like, that’s part of the enjoyable watch as well, because everybody moves a certain kind of way. Okay, well, we are here for debate so Natasha, which Sex and the City character did you choose as your pick for truest New Yorker?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  13:10

I’m arguing in favor of Carrie.

 

Aminatou Sow  13:14

Well, okay, for anybody who hasn’t seen the show, which is, I’m, you know, I’m gonna say, like nobody who’s listening to this, but who is Carrie Bradshaw, and why is she? Why is she? Why is she controversial? Why is she?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  13:28

Yeah, Carrie Bradshaw, she is the heart and soul of Sex in the City. She’s the lead character. She is a writer. She writes a weekly column called Sex in the City for this fictional newspaper, and her column focuses on like her sex capades that of her friends, she talks a lot about dating, love and relationships, specifically in New York City, she has a lot of fans around the city. People bump into her all the time and tell her she’s their icon, and they love her column. But yeah, outside of the column, she’s a huge fashion girl. She’s obsessed with shoes. That’s like her whole thing. She’s always spending her last, you know, paycheck on a pair of shoes, not paying her bills. And she gives very much like New York it girl main character, energy through her style, for sure, but then also, just like her, definitely her style, through her confidence in what she wears. Sometimes like ridiculous things. But I think what she’s obviously most known for in the show she has an on again, off again, what feels like decades long, situationship with a Mr. Big who is a just kind of another archetype within himself. He’s like a New York City like finance hotshot who never takes her seriously, dogs her out, gets married on her like makes her lose all sense of common sense. So she can be a bit frustrating to watch as a character, but she’s also very relatable because we’ve all been there, we’ve all been stigmatized, we’ve all been made a fool into her. The fool when you found a guy you really liked. But yeah, I love Carrie. I love her, her friendships. She’s not always the best friend, but because she’s a little self absorbed, but she keeps good company. I love Charlotte. I love Miranda. Loves Samantha. I love their little foursome. They tear up New York City together, and Carrie, I think of as kind of like the leader of the pack. So that’s my girl, Carrie.

 

Aminatou Sow  15:22

What about you, Justine, which Sex and the City character did you choose today as your pick for a truest New Yorker?

 

Justine Kay  15:28

Yes, I have picked Samantha Jones.

 

Aminatou Sow  15:32

And tell us about Samantha Jones.

 

Justine Kay  15:35

Yes, she is CEO of her own PR firm. She is the oldest of the group. She is solid in her 40s. As soon as the show starts, and we have very few indications of her real age as the show keeps going on, she is a sex obsessed, but never male centered, woman who is always helpful on the show. Always really wonderful to all of her friends, even Charlotte, who’s the biggest prude of them all, helps her out with any sexual escapade that she needs. Same with Carrie. And she also has a very specific vocal cadence that people are familiar with. If you listen to interviews with Kim Cattrall, you’ll be shocked at how the real actress actually sounds. But that vocal cadence has become very famous in its own right, and also her outfit formulas. I really like her formula. She specifically wears red when she’s doing certain things. She has a very specific haircut that is also not male centered. She started off the show with longer hair. They cut it short to make her more of a boss babe. I think that’s also part of New York City that like real girl boss BS that we’re now calling out because we all want a soft life. But back in 2000 No, no, no, we all wanted to be the CEO of our own PR firm with her very strong shoulder pads, and she also has some of the most iconic one liners in the show. So while Carrie I literally think of Sarah, Jessica Parker as like Statue of Liberty. I was telling Natasha this couple months ago, Samantha has some of the more iconic one liners that I really favor and savor and love.

 

Aminatou Sow  16:51

Okay, let’s get into it. The rules of the show are as follows. It’s your mission to win me over with your thoughts and takes as to why your pick today fully embodies a true New Yorker. Natasha, please make your opening argument for Carrie Bradshaw and why you should win the debate with her as your pick today.

 

Speaker 1  17:36

I think true New Yorkers are real. They’re authentic, as frustrating and as messy Carrie can be. Sometimes what you see is what you get. She’s quirky. Yeah, she’s a little messy, but nonetheless, she walks around like a main character. And I think that is definitely a new a true New Yorker. We own the city. You walk on the sidewalk, it’s your sidewalk. That’s everybody that’s walking around this city. We’re all a little bit delusional here. And I think, as I said before, is the greatest place on earth which it is, and we’re all accustomed just ignoring the ratchet and just dealing with it on our daily basis. And I think Carrie kind of like wields and deals through life like that. And so to me, she just gives quintessential New York, New York person, New York residents, for sure.

 

Aminatou Sow  18:23

Justine, your turn, same basic idea, please make your argument for Samantha Jones, and why you think she best represents the true New Yorker.

 

Speaker 1  18:32

Yeah, I think Samantha represents a woman who is about her ambition and about the D, and I think that is most women in New York, you’re trying to find the D and you’re trying to find the money. I think a lot of other cities don’t have that same quality for a lot of women. And while Samantha is after both of those things in a very, very powerful way, she she never struck me as masculine. She always struck me as a very feminine character. And she is also a true New Yorker, because she is at the opening of a bag of potato chips, she is at the opening of every single club, restaurant, every single thing, and she takes every opportunity as she can, as in New York you have to do because why else are you paying that ring?

 

Aminatou Sow  19:17

I love that. Let’s take a quick break.

 

Aminatou Sow  19:35

Now that we have a little bit of background on both of your picks, the next round is all about the impassioned argument. I want to I want to hear more passion, more fire. It’s clear that both Carrie and Samantha are intertwined in the fabric of TV’s portrayals of New York City. They also have big city jobs. Carrie is a sex columnist for the fictional New York star and eventually for Vogue. And Samantha is a high. Howard PR exact she is. She is at everything. She knows everything, and she’s at everything. Justine, who do you think has the most desired job in New York City? Of both of them?

 

Speaker 1  20:15

I actually, oh gosh, I actually would say Carrie. I think most people move to New York City because they want to be Carrie. They don’t want to be Samantha. Samantha probably has a little bit too much responsibility for most people around the country. That is a very specific, ambitious woman that Samantha right?

 

Aminatou Sow  20:32

It’s like a media job that where she does nothing and somehow can afford every shoe and every Oh, yeah. I was like, how many dollars a word were they paying in the fictional 1996 you know? So also, I saw that tweet the other day where somebody said, you know, that the most realistic thing about sex in the city is that nobody reads Carrie’s little articles. They were like, Yeah, none of her friends read her little articles. And I was like, that is, that’s a real media portrayal. But the how, yeah, how she has, like, a column that’s like, what? Like 500 words, I’ll give her 750 to be generous. But yeah, you’re right. This is, that’s the dream job. Like you do nothing and you make a lot of money. Natasha, but who do you think is best at their job?

 

Speaker 1  21:21

Oh, wow, definitely Samantha, I think, as Justine says, she’s at the opening of anything, everything. She’s the girl or, I mean, girl the woman. She’s the boss at the front with the clipboard. She’s dictating New York City nightlife. She’s running downtown. She knows who’s opening the restaurant, how to get in places like she’s a good friend you want to have in your corner. It’s good to have like a Samantha type who’s kind of like on the scene. Because I’m not a seedy person in New York, but I don’t mind going to a little restaurant opening or getting a little reservation somewhere every now and then. And Samantha is that friend for sure.

 

Aminatou Sow  21:56

Man, that friendship imbalance would drive me nuts if my like, work from home. Friend was always hitting me up for what was going on in my life, because Gary is definitely the original work from home, girlie on TV. Oh, my God yes. Man in a city as liberal as New York City in the late 90s, early 2000s all of the Caucasian women still are pretty much problematic. Natasha, who do you think was the most problematic character throughout the series of the show?

 

Speaker 1  22:31

Ooh, so there’s not too many people of color that appear on Sex and the City. I think Samantha had the most interactions I know. But it’s that good or bad? Is that good or bad? Because sometimes you’re like, I don’t want to be involved. I don’t want to be I don’t I’m like, do you want to be involved here? I know. And now you see within just like that, they’re, like, creating all these, like, new black besties. And it’s like, very annoying. Um, but I was gonna say I think Samantha. Samantha’s character had the most interactions with, like, the characters of color. She dated a Latina. She was sleeping with a black guy one point for like do one episode. But I actually think Carrie’s lack of interaction with any person of color is probably most problematic. She, as I said before, she gives to me, although she lives in Upper East Side, more like downtown girl energy, because she’s a writer. She, like, goes to art shows, she’s at the downtown events. You would think that her circle would be a little bit more diverse than it is. And we don’t see her kind of hanging out with anybody besides just those three ladies. And then anytime she had, like, auxiliary friends, they were never a person of color. So, yeah, I think I’ll just give Samantha points because she, I guess, slept with

 

Aminatou Sow  23:45

A black guy once in one episode. Sometimes, that’s negative points. Yeah, I’m not sure. I’m gonna think about that. I’m gonna think about that. Justine, what do you what do you think who was the most problematic character throughout the series of the show?

 

Speaker 1  24:06

Yeah, I’m actually gonna say Samantha. I think she is the loudest. So while she had the most interaction with people of color, that’s the 100% true, she also had the most offenses. I remember the episode where she first moved to the Meatpacking District and she was yelling at the ladies of the night outside, I believe, wielding the T word all up and down our television screen.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:30

Sure was.

 

Speaker 1  24:32

Pretty bad, and obviously something that none of those writers could get away with now. But they chose Samantha to wield those words around, because they knew that she could get away with it. And even her episode where she did fuck that black guy who worked at Red Rooster, or the sister was the head chef at Red Rooster chef.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:51

And the sister was so mad. Remember, good sister though good sister, because she knows she’s like.  This is bad. My brother’s not a fetish.

 

Speaker 1  25:02

Yeah, but even you know her screaming at this woman in the middle of the club, saying, I can fuck whoever I want, no matter what color they are. I mean that. Come on, girl, everybody, just relax. Oh my god, but she couldn’t she was the loudest, so she’s probably the most problematic.

 

Aminatou Sow  25:20

Well, speaking of gentrification, because that’s what that is. Carrie, Natasha. Carrie is a New York City transplant. She’s originally from that fictional town of Castleberry, Connecticut, which you can’t convince me, is not real town, actually. Yeah. And she moved to the city in, I think, like 1986 which means that, like, by the time the show premieres, she’s been she’s been here for 10 years. Does that make her a true New Yorker? Or is she just another gentrifying transplant from Connecticut?

 

Speaker 1  25:55

Yeah, somebody said you live here for 10 years, that makes you a New Yorker. So I guess, according to that definition, sure she’s been here. But yeah, I think, I mean, New York is filled with mostly transplants at this point. I mean, most people, you know, even if they’ve been here forever, then they came from somewhere else. I think Carrie, to me, what she represents, is kind of like the hustle of New York. I mean, even though her whole lifestyle makes no sense, living in this upper east side apartment, and, you know, who knows how much money she’s making and how she affording these shoes, but the fact that they kind of always infuse a little bit of, like, struggle, even if it’s fake, a little bit of fake struggle, into her life, you know, she’s always, you know, she’s trying to pay her rent. She’s trying to, like, get rent controlled. She’s trying to, you know, make her bills. She’s trying to, you know, there’s always something with Carrie financially, which is kind of definitely true to form in New York, it’s a hard city to live in our city, to survive, it’s hard to have one job here. I don’t know how she had one job and still made it work.

 

Aminatou Sow  26:58

You know, how she made it? She had all those boyfriends that paid for everything. That is how she made it.

 

Speaker 1  27:04

That’s so real. But yeah, she had the little hustle in her. I mean, Samantha was definitely a hustler, but Samantha was also like a bad bitch. Had her own could afford her nice thing. She wasn’t relying on a man in a way that Carrie kind of represented. That like down and out, got a New Yorker trying to make ends meet type, but somehow affording these expensive shoes like it didn’t make sense, but she always kind of had a little struggle to her.

 

Aminatou Sow  27:30

Okay, Justine, it’s a widely held opinion that a true New Yorker never leaves. It’s New York City or nowhere. I don’t agree with that, but that’s what the people are saying. And, you know, in the pandemic we saw there was the huge exodus of, like, longtime New Yorkers who wanted, like, the slower pace, cleaner pastures. You know, no, there’s nothing wrong with that in the Sex and the City reboot. And just like that, it’s revealed that Samantha moved to London. Can she still be considered a true New Yorker if she doesn’t live here?

 

Justine Kay  28:07

That’s a great question. I do think because of the move to London and even drearier, perhaps even more expensive and even a harder lifestyle, good lifestyle to obtain city, London. I think that’s why she could still be considered a true New Yorker, even with the fashion. The fashion’s very akin to New York as well. But part of me does want to agree that a true New Yorker never leaves, because the people I know who are from New York ain’t never leaving ever, so while I am team Samantha, all day I would wear the team Samantha. I heart Samantha shirt. I do think it’s a little bit of a betrayal that she left.

 

Aminatou Sow  28:50

Natasha, you touched on Carrie is like, you know, like the struggles of her life, like one of them was definitely that she had apartment drama all the time. Her, you know, her building goes Co Op, and she has to, like, purchase or move like, you know, like a high stakes drama. And for Samantha, it’s that her, like, very cool gay neighborhood gets a Pottery Barn and, you know, and it’s like the neighborhood is changing. So which one of these two has the bigger New York real estate problem. The faux housing crisis for Carrie or Samantha is slowly gentrifying. It’s like, oh, my God, we got a pottery bar, and it’s bad here. Now that’s bigger problems.

 

Justine Kay  29:32

Right I mean, I think definitely carries is like the issue that most people are sharing, getting priced out, can’t afford to live places, um, in my neighborhood alone, all that I live in kind of like a brownstone Street, pretty much I’ve watched over the past five to 10 years, like how they all just getting bought out, gutted, chopped up into a million different pieces, and a building that had four apartments now has like 10 units in it. So I feel Carrie on her struggle. I think that, to me, is the deeper struggle than just Oh my God. They open a Whole Foods down the street.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:06

I know, if only she would get involved with the housing advocates and do something about it. If only. Let’s take another break.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:30

We’re back now, and it’s time for our lightning round. I’m gonna ask you both a series of questions about your picks, and I want you to answer them as quickly and as honestly as possible. Here we go. Justine, looking back, who was the bigger girl? Boss, Carrie or Samantha?

 

Justine Kay  30:44

Samantha.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:45

Natasha in the reboot, Carrie has a gig as a podcast host. If Samantha also had a podcast, whose podcast would you rather listen to Carrie’s or Samantha’s?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  30:55

Samantha’s.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:57

Justine in 2024 if given the opportunity to do so. Do you think Samantha would sleep with New York City Mayor Eric Adams, yes or no?

 

Justine Kay  31:09

Yes, just for the store podcast.

 

Aminatou Sow  31:12

It better be a storyline on and just like that. Natasha, if Carrie Bradshaw were a New York City grocery store, which one would she be? Eataly or Zabars?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  31:23

Oh, my God, Eataly.

 

Aminatou Sow  31:27

Natasha, we talk a lot about Carrie’s fashion, but Samantha also turned incredible looks on the show. Which one was your favorite?

 

Speaker 1  31:35

Ooh, I think she had like a magenta power suit in one of the episodes I don’t remember, but like huge shoulder pads and just a hot pink.

 

Aminatou Sow  31:47

Just the words magenta, power. Like Done, done. Justine, who said it, Samantha Jones or Carrie Bradshaw. It’s the rule of life that everything you have always wanted comes the second you stop looking for it. Wow. Carrie said that that’s correct, yeah. Natasha, who said the following, I will not be judged by you or society. I will wear whatever and blow who whomever I want, as long as I can breathe and kneel.

 

Justine Kay  32:13

Obviously, Samantha,

 

Aminatou Sow  32:16

OObviously, these are so easy and Justine, if Samantha had a 2024, romantic episode plot line, and just like that, what would it be?

 

Speaker 1  32:27

It would definitely be with a woman, for sure, has to be.

 

Aminatou Sow  32:32

And that concludes our lightning round. This has been a lot of fun, and I really hate to wrap it up, but the time has come. I need to declare a winner. Pretty soon, you will both now have 30 ish uninterrupted seconds to state your case as to who is the truest New Yorker, Carrie Bradshaw, or Samantha Jones. Who wants to go first?

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  32:50

I’ll go first.

 

Aminatou Sow  32:51

Let’s go

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  32:52

So Carrie Bradshaw is main character energy. She’s the main character like a true New Yorker. She’s a thought leader with a pulse on the city when it comes to being the voice of dating, sex, relationship. She’s the voice for many women in the city who feel seen through her column and can relate to her dating adventures, her dating mishaps. And I think that’s something that bonds a lot of people in New York, particularly women. Is just like how treacherous the dating scene is. I think true New Yorkers also take personal style very seriously. Carrie style is very much a blueprint for many women still today, she taught us that mixing patterns is okay. Spending money on shoes just to make yourself happy can be okay as well. And I think that is definitely like a very New York authentic, like true to the individual type of thing, is the way she takes her style seriously. And lastly, her dating history, to me, is so New York, as I said, you know, if you live here long enough, you’ve dated everybody under the sun, you’ll have stories for days and days and days. But true New Yorkers never let up on the hope for finding love. We all want our storybook. We all want to stroll through Central Park and have our little kiss at the fountain. And I think Carrie had so many of those moments. And over the years of watching the show, she just had such an incredible dating history and lots of dating stories, which I think is very true to a lot of New Yorkers who’ve been trying to find love in this city.

 

Aminatou Sow  34:22

Justine, please state your case for Samantha Jones.

 

Speaker 1  34:27

Yeah, Samantha is a real lesson on how to stay in New York. She has a lot of ownership over herself, her body, her job, and she is just the quintessential I’m staying in New York, no matter what type of lady and she is, I would say, at the peak of perfection of New York, she has the dick. She got department and she got the job, which is an infamous quote from Second City, you’re always looking for some one of those three. She has all three of them. And so that is why, I think. She is also, I think her style is very much owed to herself, and a very formulaic personal style, which I love from Samantha Jones, and that voice and those quotes will never leave any of us. So yeah, that’s my pitch for Samantha.

 

Aminatou Sow  35:20

Thank you both for joining me today. Without further ado, I am gonna tell you who I think is the realist New Yorker. I think that New York City is a state of mind. Both of these women have been through it, the housing drama, the boy drama, the money drama, The Work drama. But I gotta give it to my girl, Samantha Jones, because, yes, yes, yes. Because people always say that if you leave, you’re not from here. I don’t agree. I think that, you know, New York is in your heart, and if you leave, you can come back. She also left for another big, international, ambitious city, and also she just works harder. You know what I mean? I was like, this is a city of hustlers, and I have no respects for people who don’t work as hard. I will always give. I will always give it to the person who works the hardest and strives most. So no shade to our girl from castlebury, Connecticut. I’m sure that with 10 more million dollars, she will leave the city one day, but Samantha Jones is true New York and represents New York in another city today. That’s fair. Thank you both so much.

 

Justine Kay  36:33

Thanks for having us.

 

Natasha Scott-Reichel  36:34

Thank you.

 

CREDITS  36:41

Thanks again to Justine and Natasha. You can catch their Sex in the City Season two deep dive on their podcast, Two Black Girls, One Rose and you can catch more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like David Borey and Solomon Georgiou from the worst American abroad episode giving us some hot takes from their experiences abroad. Subscribe now and Apple podcasts.  Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC.  I’m Aminatou Sow the show is produced by me, Joanna Solotaroff, Kryssy Pease, Lamar Wood and Dani Matias. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our SVP of weekly content is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.  Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.