Secrets and Lies
We all have secrets. Some are small. Some are life-altering. Sometimes they’re about you; other times, someone else. Regardless, secrets are all around us and rarely talked about because….well, they’re secret. This week Jaime talks about the emotional toll of keeping secrets. She shares what it was like to go on a reality show and realize all her secrets weren’t going to be secrets anymore and answers questions from listeners. Should you tell your friend her husband is cheating? Should you tell your husband a secret about your own sexuality? Plus, Jaime advises a listener who started secretly smoking during COVID-19.
FYI: Tell Me What To Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.
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 Jaime Primak Sullivan: Hey, guys, you’re listening to Tell Me What To Do, and I’m Jaime Primak Sullivan. I am in my son’s room recording this episode about secrets. And one secret I’m keeping is that my son doesn’t know I’m in his room. My kids are reaching that age now where their room feels like a sanctuary almost, like a private space. Little do they know that, like, I pay for all of this, so there is no sanctuary here. All zoo animals report to the zookeeper, who is me. But, you know, they’re very like, were you in my room? I’m like, you mean, was I in my room that you sleep in? Yes, I was. Yes, I was. Still posting videos for my sweet Naya on Instagram. You know, last week’s episode we talked about grief and I said I am surrendering America’s timeline for grief. You just don’t get to decide that two days and then back to the grind is enough time to grieve. I’m not doing it. I don’t subscribe to it anymore. Cancel my subscription. Shave my head in the back and let me speak to your manager, OK? That’s where I’m at with the grief thing. And Michael and I have finally made the painstaking decision — I was outvoted — to send our children back to school physically. It is keeping me up at night. It is giving me restless leg syndrome.
[02:35] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I was outvoted. Michael wants to send them back. They want to go. I voted for virtual learning. And I was outvoted. So I hate it. I hate that our children have to be guinea pigs. I hate that our teachers and administrators and school nurses and janitors have to be guinea pigs. There’s a video by this white guy who loves to do satire stuff, his name is Brent. I’m sure you’ve seen him. He’s like he said something like, “how are we supposed to underpay these teachers if we can’t get these schools back open?” And I just about cracked up.” I mean, really, most likely what’s going to happen is your kid’s going to catch COVID and just kill the teacher. I mean, who cares about that?” I was like, whoa, funny but not funny. And that is why I voted for virtual learning, because I could never live with myself if my child was asymptomatic and gave that virus to their teacher and that teacher suffered. That would just — I’m not cut out for this. Just remember, I say it all the time, we get more instruction on how to put a TV on the wall than we do on how to raise a child. So I am really struggling with that, but it is what it is. So when you hear this podcast, just know that the Sullivan family has decided to send their children back to school.
[04:11] Jaime Primak Sullivan: So. When you do a reality show, you suddenly become aware of how many skeletons in your closet you have. Because in the beginning, when they’re like, hey, we’re gonna make a show for you and you’re going to get to produce it and be the star, and we’re gonna do some fun photo shoots with you and your best friends, and it’s going to be awesome. And you’re like, oh, my God, I’m going to be on Bravo! Hey, Jersey Belle. Hey. And all of a sudden people start writing you things like, “didn’t you beat someone up sophomore year and cut her hair in Mr. Christopharo’s class? And you’re like, oh my God, every bad thing I have ever done is now public domain. Every mistake I have ever made is now public domain. And honestly, I never viewed my decisions in life as secrets, per se, I just viewed decisions I made at very different times in my life. But we are not a very forgiving society. We love to dig up things people said or did 10 years ago, 20 years ago, that when they were in college — I wasn’t even sober. I think I went to class. You know what I mean? Like, there’s definitely pictures of me and drugs. I was a stripper. We all know that. I feel like I’ve been very forthcoming, but I feel a lot of my honesty has come from a place of fear. If I don’t tell you first, someone else will find out and tell you. Some girl will come out of the woodwork and go, “her real name is Jaime, but she went by Jersey at Silk Stockings in West Virginia. And boy, could she shake her tail feather.” Well, shit, let me get ahead of this, right? Carrying secrets breeds shame. And it forces you into a space of fear, because you live in a world where you are preoccupied with what you know, and you are preoccupied with when someone else is going to find out or tell. And then you get stuck in that space of do I tell first? Or do I hope no one else tells? Or a combination of the two. All right, so I myself have subscribed to the mantra that your truth is best told by you, because then you control the narrative.
[06:54] Jaime Primak Sullivan: And you can be emotionally prepared for your truth. You know, when I came out to my mom in fourth grade, I didn’t know there was anything to be fearful of. So I literally just came home and was like, Mom, there’s a girl and I like her. And my mom was like, OK. And it was fine. There have been other things that I have tried to keep from my mom. I did not want my mom to know I was date-raped in high school. I didn’t want her to look at me differently. I didn’t want her to feel as a mother that she didn’t protect me, or she couldn’t do something for me, or I was — still to this day, and she’s 73 — afraid for her to find out who it was, because I’m afraid to this day she would kill him. I’m not kidding. Susan would be on at one of those episodes of, “and then I killed him.” You know, whatever those shows are. She doesn’t care, you know. So I didn’t want her to know. But as I was more honest on Coffee Talk about my experiences, I was like, I have to tell Susan or someone else will. And then she will feel two kinds of pain. One, that something happened painful to her daughter that she was unaware of and couldn’t protect her from. But two that, her daughter didn’t trust her enough to tell her. So I had to tell her. And I didn’t realize how relieved I would feel because I don’t think we understand how heavy secrets are.
[08:40] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Because, you know, we love gossip, don’t we? We love gossip in this world. But we don’t really want to know heavy shit. We want to know dumb shit like who had a fight on last night’s episode of whatever show we love. Or like, oh shit, someone did something with someone. Oh my God. Did you hear the attorney general’s about to make a big announcement. We’re comfortable with that, because that’s little things, that’s more like entertainment, which is a whole other podcast about how sad that is. But when somebody confides in you something heavy, like when my best friend told me she had breast cancer and I wasn’t allowed to tell anyone. And people were asking me how she was, or what was wrong, or what was going on, and I had to pivot every conversation away from the truth. The secret got heavier and heavier and more burdensome. Not her. She was not burdensome. But the secret was. And let me tell you something else about carrying secrets. I’m no expert, but I did write down how they make me feel. Back in my journal here. My friend from New Jersey gave me this journal and I love it. Keeping a secret becomes a physical burden. It actually alters the way we see things. There is scientific proof that when you are carrying a secret hills look higher, distances look farther to you, because your body is physically and emotionally and mentally burdened. Your depth perception is off, which honestly is probably the best time to see your man’s penis for the first time, because actually it’s like really five and a half inches, but you’re like, whoa, John Holmes. I should keep secrets more often. Secrets preoccupy us in a way that puts us in a perpetual state of fear. Sometimes that fear is idling. You know, like when you just have a car on and it’s just idling. The fear is just idling. It’s not overwhelming. It’s not crippling. But it’s there. It’s a low idle all the time, right?
[11:22] Jaime Primak Sullivan: It causes your adrenaline to spike. Think about when you’ve ever kept a secret and you think someone found out or you think, you know, your adrenaline spikes, you feel sick, you go into fight or flight panic mode. What recon do I have to do? What clean up will I have to do? How bad is the fallout going to be? You know? And then you find out, oh, nobody knows. And your adrenaline starts to go down again, and you start to go back to that idling fear. That is so damaging for your body, physically, truly. It literally exhausts us and becomes hazardous to our health. I want to hear somebody else’s questions. This is a question and answer show. It’s Jaime, Tell Me What To Do and not Jaime, Ramble On.
[15:31] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK. So we have an email that says “Hi. Should I tell a nurse who is working overtime in a hospital fighting COVID that her husband is cheating on her?” Fuck no. Are you kidding me right now? No, absolutely not. I know it’s shitty that you have to carry this secret. Let me tell you what Jaime would do. Honestly, this is a hundred percent what I would do. I would go to said husband and I would say, listen to me. I’m not trying to get in your business, and I’m not trying to start any trouble. But my friend is breaking her back at the hospital, working overtime, trying to, like, save lives while you’re elbow deep in Sally, and that’s not going to work for me. So you either need to cut the shit or you need to tell her, because let me tell you what I’m not finna do: is make myself physically sick carrying the burden of your fucking secret. Am I coming in clear? And that’s exactly how I would handle that. Absolutely you do not, you do not tell her. No. You go to the husband, and if you’re afraid, don’t be. Absolutely don’t be. He clearly doesn’t give a shit. Or maybe he’s the kind of guy that would be so terrified that you called him out that he really would get his shit together. So I would go to the husband on that one. I have gone to husbands before and when they see me coming, they’re like, “oh, she knows.” I’m like, uh-huh, you know why I’m coming at you like this. They’re like, oh, boy.
[17:16] Jaime Primak Sullivan: As a matter of fact, I have told good friends of mine, if your husband was cheating on you, I would not tell you. Because most likely you would stay with him and I would be a source of contention for both of you going forward. I will always be the trigger for you. The representative of the bad news, of the secret, of the shame. And I’m not playing that game, but I will go to the fuckin’ husband quick. Hey, buddy, let me holler at you real quick. Want to meet for a drink? I’ll come to your office. Tell me what you want to do. But we need to have a conversation. And my girlfriend are always like, you wouldn’t tell me? I’m like, nope. I said what I said and I’ll say it again. You’re not emotionally tethering me to that man’s bullshit. Hell, no. Nope.
[18:08] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK. There’s a couple of other things I think we need to consider when it comes to secrets about someone else. You know, carrying your own secret brings its own shame and fear and burden, but carrying someone else’s is very different. And I want to say that we live in a time where we take everybody’s word for truth. A lot of times we are burdened with secrets that we haven’t even researched to find out if it’s true. Like, did you see your friend’s husband cheating, or did someone tell you he was cheating? Do you even know if it’s real? Are you carrying a burden that you have not verified? Because I can tell you that I have been told that Michael cheated on me. Little did they know I didn’t give a fuck. But I also was able to go to Michael with it, and he was able to say, not only was I not cheating, but here’s who I was with. Here’s who else was there. Here’s all the information you could possibly need and access to any conversation you want to have. Again, it’s not that I don’t care. That’s a whole other podcast, because I know people are going, you don’t care if your husband cheats? But you know that I just don’t tie sexual fidelity to successful marriage the way other people do. I’m way more mad about you playing with my money and my credit than if you play with some other woman’s business.
[19:41] Jaime Primak Sullivan: If you have indeed verified this, the one thing I will say is when you choose not to tell your friend, I do need to give this disclaimer because what I would do is not always what you all should do. Or at the very least, I should give you both sides. I don’t know why it’s weighing on me to tell you this, but when you don’t tell her, you take away her decision to decide what is best for her and her family. By not telling her you have made a choice to have her continue that marriage. Now, look, she may or may not leave. She may stay anyway. Fuck it, I’m at the hospital all day long, I need somebody take care of these kids. I’m good. But she may pack up her kids in the middle of this pandemic, and leave or tell him get your stuff and get out. And even though he is responsible for his behavior, you will somehow be tied to this disruption. That is just a fact. But I will tell you this: when we decide not to share secrets, we just have to remember that we do take the decision-making for those people away from them. And that is just something we need to be mindful of, which is, again, why I like to go to the husband, because it puts it in his court. I am not responsible for your behavior, you are doing what you are doing, and I will be a pig in shit before I am emotionally tethered to your bad decisions. So you either cut the shit or come clean to your wife and have enough respect for her to like, let her know, and let her make her own decision if she wants to be OK with this or not. So I do feel like I need to say that side of it because, you know, sometimes I could be a little — I know it’s gonna come as a shock to you — but I can be a little hasty. So that’s my thoughts on that. Now we have a voicemail and I think we should take a listen.
[22:07] Caller: Hi, Jaime. I have a question for you. I have always struggled with my sexuality. I learned in my late high school, early college years that I’m bisexual. I’ve never really told a whole bunch of people. There’s only two or three people in my life that know. And I recently realized that I never told my husband. We’ve been married for three years and it just never really came up. It’s not something that I ever really talk about. It’s not that I’m keeping it from him. I just haven’t told him. Should I tell him? Tell Me What To Do, Jaime.
[22:50] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I don’t know why you made the decision to keep that from your husband. I don’t know if he has a prejudice against that or maybe super religious or maybe you just didn’t think about mentioning it because past relationships are not a, you know, conversation with you guys. But what I get from your question is it’s part of who you are and you’re starting to become resentful of the fact that you feel like you can’t tell. And that is when secrets become emotional and physical burdens on us. Because if you didn’t care, if it was just somebody you used to date or something used to do, you wouldn’t even care. You wouldn’t even be asking me. You’re asking me because there’s a part of you that’s like, this is who I am. Why am I even struggling with whether I can share with the man who vowed to love me for better or for worse, in sickness, health, richer or poorer? Who said he would change my shitty diapers if he had to? Why do I even need to think about whether I can tell him that I kissed a girl and I liked it. So it’s obviously weighing on you. I don’t hide at all who I am because God made me in his glory, truly in his vision. I didn’t choose to be bisexual. By the way, I would. Hear me with that one. When I’m in heaven and God’s like, look, so you didn’t know reincarnations a thing? I’m going to say, let me come back as a woman just because I love being a mother. And please send me back bisexual. Because I love watching Pretty Woman and being as attracted to Richard Gere as I was to Julia Roberts. It’s a twofer if you ask me. Two for the price one. I like it. I am bisexual. It just is. I am white. I am female. It’s part of me. So I told Michael from the door because I wanted him to know. I am Catholic. I am not sober. I am bisexual. You know, I am loud. I am neurotic. This is who I am. I would tell him. He’s going to be like, all right, cool. Also be prepared for threesome requests because that’s how 98 percent of men receive that information. Hey, babe, I just want to share something about myself. I want you to know that I dated women before you and I’m bisexual. And he goes, so we’re having a threesome! No, not what I said, but I’m sure if you want to.
[25:45] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I don’t really believe in keeping secrets from spouses. I saw what financial infidelity did to my marriage. If you have not listened to the Tell Me What To Do episode about financial infidelity, you should go listen to it. It’s one of my most personal and I was traumatized by it. You know, I believe in keeping, like, keeping the packages in the trunk until he’s not looking and then bringing in the bags from Target. But like, not big secrets. Let’s get to our next question.
[27:53] Caller: Hi, Jaime. This is anonymous. I was calling in because you were doing the show on secrets and you have asked if anybody had any they wanted to get off their chest. And my secret currently is that when all of this pandemic stuff started and quarantine happened, I picked up smoking again. And I know it’s a terrible habit and I know I should not do it. I don’t have any excuses, obviously. It makes me feel horrible, especially to know that I’m lying to my kids and my husband. But there’s no but because it’s not a good excuse. It’s just the only thing that I’ve carved out in my head as like the way that I can get time to myself where nobody’s bothering me. And I know it’s so bad and I know I shouldn’t do it. I know that you’ve personally been affected by the consequences of smoking and even knowing that, even that I know I need to quit. And it’s still hard. And I just listened to the podcast about addictions, and that was super helpful, too. But I just figured I can’t be the only one going through it. I know that it’s a really hard time right now, and it’s hard for people to find ways to cope with what’s going on. And unfortunately, that’s what I have picked up and what I have done. So, yeah. Thank you.
[29:20] Jaime Primak Sullivan: You listed a bunch of reasons why you shouldn’t smoke. But this show isn’t about addiction. That was the other show with Dr. Harrison, which you listened to, and I’m glad you did. I’m not going to lecture you on smoking. But let’s talk about the secret of it. If you are doing something that feels incredibly shameful to you regarding your role as a wife and a mother, that is why you shouldn’t be doing it. If you can’t be honest about it, then you shouldn’t be doing it. And I can give you a list of a million other things you can do with your time. Time that’s just for you. A walk. A shower. Masturbation. Remember that first show? Sex for one, please. You know, those are just excuses because you want to smoke. I don’t know why you need to keep it a secret from your husband. Again, I don’t understand these men you guys are married to because I don’t have to keep things secret from my husband. So I’m trying to understand. Is it just because he would be like ew, that’s gross. Or, you know how bad it is for you. But like that conversation comes and goes, right?
[30:32] Jaime Primak Sullivan: You’re grown. What’s he going to say? No, I forbid you. So why keep it a secret? That’s a secret I would tell. I’m not proud of it. I’d like to stop. Maybe you can work with me on it, but I’m smoking. I can understand maybe not telling the kids, because there is part of us as parents, we are afraid if we tell them about sex that they’ll have sex, or if we tell them about cigarettes that they’ll smoke cigarettes, you know. Well, guess what? If you tell your kid, you know, about bears, they don’t turn into a bear. Like, I think we’re alright. So I do understand the kid fear, not telling the kids. So I’ll give you a pass there. But why don’t keep it a secret from your husband. Hold yourself accountable. If you really don’t want to be smoking, that’s a great way to start. Let me tell my husband so he can give me that look of shame every time I come back in. You know, but smoking is hard. It’s more addicting than anything else. I get it. But don’t say it’s the only time you can carve out for yourself. I mean, come on. We both know that’s bullshit. Boy, you really dug deep on that excuse. It’s the only fresh air I get! That’s not fresh air.
[31:59] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Secrets are hard. They’re hard because we all have them and we all carry them. Whether they are our own or someone else’s. It’s just part of it. I have learned now that telling my truth can be liberating for other people because they go, oh, my God, me too. I feel that way, too, or I experience that, too, or I am grieving like that, too. But I still have secrets that are mine alone. They don’t all feel like burdens. Some are just my little private things. Some I’m just not ready to tell. But carrying the burdens of others, especially for people we love, can be debilitating. Like I said, we were not created to live with an idling fear. That is a physical burden. It scientifically changes the chemicals in your brain so the world looks more difficult to you. It’s 2020. Do you really need the world to look more difficult to you? Seriously, I think we’ve been thrown enough shit this year that you can take something you’ve been carrying and set it down. The other thing is, don’t always be so accessible. Don’t always be the person people feel like they can come to you with a secret about. Sure, you want to be there for your friends, but it’s OK to say I am not emotionally stable enough to carry your secret right now. I love you, but like, I’m dealing with my own shit, my card is full, my dance card is punched. I’m at flex capacitor here. You know, we always feel like we have to take the burdens of others and the secrets of others. And that comes with our little need for gossip. You know, text any friend right now, girl, you are not going to believe this. And she will be like, what the fuck is it, girl? I will lock these kids in a closet. Tell me some shit. It’s like you don’t always have to carry — because what if she tells you your sister’s husband is having an affair? Well, good. Now that’s on you. That’s on you now. Now you know something you wish you didn’t know. And that’s hard.
[34:28] Jaime Primak Sullivan: And remember, when you tell someone, when you decide to tell someone, you getting it off your chest so you can feel better should not be the motivation. If that is the only reason you are telling somebody their business, don’t do it. Because you are going to totally disrupt their life. And I’d like to leave a little wiggle room. Let me give you a trick. Not everybody is as strong as you are or I am in any given situation. So let’s say you have a friend named Claire. Let’s say Claire’s husband is cheating on her. And you want to tell Claire. Because you feel like Claire should know. It’s the respectful thing to do. I’m tired of carrying the secret. Time for her to know, make her own decisions. I’m going to tell Claire — ooh, I’m giving you all a secret on how I do this. And I’m going to leave a little room of doubt. Claire, I have to tell you something. Chrissie told me that your husband is having an affair. Now, I have not seen this with my own two eyes. And this may not be true. But on the off chance it is, I thought you should know. And I want to carve out space for you to sit on it and come back to me if you want to talk about it or not. Again, might not be true.
[36:06] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Because what we’ve done is we’ve allowed Claire a grace period. If Claire is not strong enough to barge into the next room and demand answers, because some women prefer denial and they need time. We’ve created enough doubt, we’ve left enough possibility that maybe it isn’t true that she can sit with it for a while and not feel pressure to react. Because if you come with proof and you got pictures and you got the girl in the car waiting to tell her story, you are forcing Claire to take a stance. And that is jarring and traumatizing and really unfair. I highly discourage you from bringing physical evidence of an affair off the gate, maybe if you have it, keep it, in case she comes back to you and says, do you even know if this is true? But don’t don’t just hit her with that because now you have forced Claire into action, and that is not fair, in my opinion. So leave a little doubt, a little wiggle room, a little time for her to breathe. If she needs a few weeks to kind of sit on it and collect evidence against that motherfucker. Maybe should doesn’t live in a 50/50 state. She needs to build a case, you know, give her some time to do it. Whatever you do, don’t confront both of them in the same room, because now she’s gotta swing. Like now she’s fighting. Don’t do that.
[37:54] Jaime Primak Sullivan: And I know that when you’re carrying a burden or a secret, it feels, you know, overwhelming, insurmountable, scary, big. But what the person you are going to tell is going to feel even worse. Just remember that. No matter how hard it is for you to keep the secret, once you tell it, your burden has been lifted and hers just begins. Or his. And I’m going to give you two more things about secrets. The messenger almost always becomes the threat. The messenger is almost always the bad guy. And even if they say you’re not, and even if they love you, you are emotionally tethered to that trauma. And if their family breaks up, you are part of the reason for that, whether you want to be or not. And if she stays, she keeps you at arm’s length because you’re a reminder of what you knew before she knew, and what you may or may not think. And she’s covered in shame about that. Unless she’s me, and then she’s like I told you I don’t give a shit. So just know going into it. There will be a distance, an emotional distance, between you and the person you tell. That is the way that they protect themselves. There’s nothing you can do about it. And the last thing I want to tell you about telling is you gotta be prepared for the grief. Her grief, your grief, the falling out of friendships, the falling out of families, the destruction that comes from truth. Now, we all know with time, truth brings blessings and new opportunities and open doors and great loves and second husbands and all that shit. But until we get there, it’s grief. And you have to be prepared for the grief, hers and yours, because she may choose to end your friendship. Or your friendship may never look the same again. And you need to be ready for that. Cause this shit is real and it is hard.
[40:05] Jaime Primak Sullivan: And if you are carrying your own secret right now, one that is taking its toll on you emotionally and physically, you can email it to me and just get it off your chest, then I can know and someone in the world can know and you can know that someone knows. If that’s not enough, you can speak to a therapist. You can write it in a journal or you can get brave enough to confront. I have a friend whose mother’s boyfriend sexually abused her when she was young. And she told her mother, and her mother didn’t believe her and chose the boyfriend. And it caused so much damage internally in their family that she wished she never told. And it was only like 157 years later that the mother came back and said, I know you’re telling the truth and I’m sorry. So I understand why some people don’t tell. But I just need to warn you that carrying certain secrets long-term can cause serious emotional and mental distress. And they are physical burdens that keep your mind idling in a state of fear all the time. And that is not healthy for you. And I share this all with you because I love you and because I want to help you navigate situations that feel impossible. I know because I’ve been there and, you know, I don’t want anybody else to suffer. I just don’t. I feel like, you know, I’ve suffered enough for all of us. Anyway, that’s my conversation on secrets. And I know I haven’t touched every aspect of a secret, but at least trying to get the conversation started.
[41:58] Jaime Primak Sullivan: If you have a secret and you just need to get it off your chest, you can email it to me, or any topic idea for this show at firstname.lastname@example.org. Or you can call me and leave a voicemail and it can be anonymous, or you could change your name to Susie Q. Just leave me a voicemail. Hey Jaime, I have a secret. Because you should get it off your chest. I love you. I’ll pray for you. Set it down today at the very least, and you can pick it back up tomorrow.
[42:32] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Tell Me What To Do is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease, and associate produced by Claire Jones. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev. Music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan are executive producers. Rate and review us, and follow us @LemonadaMedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course, you can follow me at Jaime Primak Sullivan on Facebook or at Jaime P. Sullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at 833-453-6662.