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Which mass transit action film is better: Speed or Passenger 57? Comedian Wyatt Cenac is here to represent Passenger 57, while comedian Chris Duffy argues in favor of Speed. And Ronald Young Jr. will cast the deciding vote. On the one hand, Speed launched Keanu Reeves’s action movie career and Chris says its legacy is undeniable. On the other hand, Passenger 57 did the same for Wesley Snipes and Wyatt says it holds up better. Which movie will Ronald select as this week’s winner?

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Chris Duffy, Wyatt Cenac, Speaker 1, Ronald young Jr., Speaker 2

Ronald young Jr.  00:06

The late 90s gave us at least two classic action adventure movies. In 1998 there was Blade starring Wesley Snipes, and in 1999 there was The Matrix starring Keanu Reeves. But in order to get to those classic roles, each of these actors had to be convincing action stars earlier in the 90s. Wesley Snipes was in Passenger 57 in 1992 and Keanu Reeves was in Speed in 1994 both films showcased the actors as action stars, and both films featured stories taking place while in transit. For Snipes, it was on a plane. And for Reeves, it was on a city bus. Both films featured high octane stunts, quippy one liners and box office success, but which Early Career Action film was better? Passenger 57 or Speed? We make that decision once and for all, right here and right now on pop culture Debate Club. I’m Ronald young Jr.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:13

So let’s meet our panelists for today. Representing Speed is the host of the hit podcast, How To Be a Better Human, and the host of the science comedy game show, Wrong Answers Only. It’s comedian and TV writer Chris Duffy, hello and welcome, Chris.

 

Chris Duffy  01:27

Hi, thanks so much for having me very, very happy to be here.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:29

Oh, I’m glad to have you also joining us. Representing passenger 57 is comedian Daily Show alum and host of HBO Wyatt Synnex problem areas. Hello and welcome to the show, Wyatt Cenac.

 

Wyatt Cenac  01:43

Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:46

I love that both y’all are here. I hear that y’all already have a relationship. How do y’all know each other? Chris, why don’t we start with you? How do y’all know each other? Well,

 

Chris Duffy  01:53

I would say Wyatt and I have the rare relationship of friend to then he was my boss, and now we are friends again. Remained friends through the employment, but yes, I wrote for the TV show, and we’ve performed together and known each other for years now.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:08

Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s not normally how the art goes. It doesn’t go from friends to working back to friends, which is good.

 

Wyatt Cenac  02:14

Yeah, and I was a tyrant specifically to him.

 

Chris Duffy  02:18

That’s right, yeah. But that’s also what I look for in my personal relationships, is someone who will really, you know, put me in my place.

 

Wyatt Cenac  02:25

Yeah, I met as our friends, as friends. I was a tyrant. As a boss. He walked all over me.

 

Chris Duffy  02:31

That’s right.

 

Wyatt Cenac  02:33

And now we’re back to the tyrannical version of our relationship.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:37

Wyatt, have you? What would you say your argument style is.

 

Wyatt Cenac  02:41

I guess I would go avoidant. I know that I concur, yeah, that’s maybe most people’s their relationship style. My argument style is avoidant, anxious avoidance.

 

Chris Duffy  02:54

You know that white is disagreeing you, with you when he says something like, Well, I would imagine that. Or what would happen if, right? That’s like, what hypotheticals get involved. That’s how you know he disagrees.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:07

Okay, so I should be looking for those in today’s discussion.

 

Chris Duffy  03:10

Absolutely. That will mean he’s fury like he’s boiling on the inside. He starts pulling out a conditional.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:16

Oh, all right, with all of that, Are y’all ready to fight?

 

Wyatt Cenac  03:20

Absolutely, as I said, I’m avoidant. So do we really have to?

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:29

Wyatt, you clicked yes to join the show. So yes, you have to.

 

Wyatt Cenac  03:33

Right? But that was also me being avoidant there too. It was just, I don’t want the conflict of having to be like, You sure you don’t want to do this. So I just said yes. I’ve just this is my year of saying yes.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:47

Great, all right. Well, then all I needed was a yes and, well, let’s get to it.

 

Wyatt Cenac  03:51

You got me the old Okey doke.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:56

Okay, so let’s get to it. We’re gathered here to talk about 290s box office thrillers, Speed and Passenger 57 and let’s start with our opening arguments. Chris, why don’t you present your case that Speed is the better action movie of the two?

 

Chris Duffy  04:14

Well, first of all, I think we can all agree that in terms of the space that the action movie takes up in the cultural consciousness. The impact of speed is enormous. It has influenced culture for 30 years now. I mean, speed is still a movie that people have a clear image of in their heads. I also will say that this is, you know, an early Keanu Reeves movie setting him off on a path. You have Sandra Bullock. You have so many incredible I mean, there’s like bit parts in the movie that are with people who are incredible. You have Dennis Hopper, you have Jeff Daniels, you have Alan Ruck. And I’ll also just say it’s the rare action film that is almost entirely. Get on public transportation. You can get on and in this movie for the cost of a token, a metro card, whatever it takes. It takes place on busses. It takes place on city streets, and at the end, for a little bit of a moment in the metro. So for me, as a person who does live in Los Angeles now, not a native Angelino, but I’ve lived here for, uh, five plus years. I think the the wishful thinking that you could be trapped on a moving vehicle that wasn’t able to go slower than 50 miles per hour on Los Angeles highways and streets, that’s a dream come true, you know, like I, I wish we could ever reach the speed that would trigger the bomb to get set. And so watching this, I was just, that’s really what set me off as, Wow, they got to 50 once, and that’s beautiful. That alone is a dream come true.

 

Ronald young Jr.  05:49

I think it’s a solid opening argument. Wyatt, present your case. Why is Passenger 57 the superior action movie of the two?

 

Wyatt Cenac  05:57

I mean, I would sum it up as just if you’re gonna have two movies where you have people trapped in some sort of mass transit, you gotta the sky choo choo or the road choo choo. If you’re selling me on one of these things, I feel like I want as much bang for my buck in that space. I feel like what Passenger 57 does very well that Speed does not is for the majority of passenger 57 you’re in the plane. It is trapped in the plane. There’s a portion where you know you’ve got die hard in a plane, and then you have die hard at a carnival, but then you go back to the plane speed. You’re in an elevator, you’re in a bus, you’re on a subway train, and it just feels like, just pick one and love it. Don’t try to, don’t try to take every confined space and make them your own speed, whereas Passenger 57 truly appreciates the death trap that is the sky choo choo.

 

Chris Duffy  07:12

I have to say that I never knew how deeply unsettled I could be by a grown man saying the words choo choo, and I’m really I’m unlocking new levels of being unsettled just each time that Wyatt says the word choo choo.

 

Ronald young Jr.  07:26

All right, well, let’s get to it. According to Wikipedia, passenger 57 was Wesley Snipes 11th movie, but in that same year, he had already released White Men Can’t Jump, and previously had done Jungle Fever, New Jack City, Major League and Wildcats, movies that are all considered classics in most circles. Now Wyatt, how important is Passenger 57 to Wesley Snipes career?

 

Wyatt Cenac  07:50

I feel like as a movie, it’s probably the one of the more important ones, because this was the first kind of action movie where he gets to show off all of his martial arts training. He also has that catchphrase, always bet on black that that I feel like has followed him in a way that, like when I think of White Men Can’t Jump, I think I think of Rosie Perez’s line of, sometimes when you win, you lose, sometimes when you lose you win. Sometimes when you win or lose, you tie. More than I think of anything that Wesley Snipes said in that movie. And so I feel like just as a movie, it is one that kind of stays with him, because it did launch his action career from there and and then, yes, as well, like he has that. If you were gonna say, oh, what’s his asta la vista, baby, it feels like it’s it’s coming from that.

 

Chris Duffy  08:51

I will say a great fear in my life would be offending anyone, and especially offending someone who is highly trained in martial arts. So if Wesley Snipes is listening. I will just say, I think you’re a fantastic action star. Please don’t come to my house and Round House, kick me and then say a cool one line, Zinger. I think he’s great. I think that, look, you can be a great action star and still not be as good as the best, right? Keanu Reeves is is up there in the pantheon of all time great movie stars, and I think he’s higher than Wesley Snipes, and I’ll tell you why is they’re both really fun to watch, but when it comes to actually just acting like looking at their face and seeing an emotion, Wesley Snipes has maybe two possible modes, right? He’s He’s kicking your ass, or he’s like brooding when in passenger 57 when they want to show that Wesley Snipes has PTSD. The way they do that is by cutting away from his face and showing the thing that he’s flashing back to. And I believe that’s because Wesley Snipes cannot communicate using his face that he has PTSD when they want to show that Keanu Reeves. Has PTSD from the death. They zoom in close on Keanu Reeves’ face, and they show his brow furrowing, and they show the tear, you know, starting to form. He’s got that, that ability to really do the micro emotions, whereas Wesley Snipes is he’s gonna kick you in the face rather than show any emotion on his face. So that, that’s one of my biggest pieces here.

 

Wyatt Cenac  10:19

I feel like, to me, watching Keanu Reeves in this, it feels a little bit like he’s doing the same kind of character he was doing in Point Break. And it’s a little bit of a kind of a surfer, like he kind of seems like a surfer guy, which that was how it always, whenever I saw the movie, I was like, How did a surfer get into SWAT that doesn’t seem he, seems he seems way more laid back than this very aggro extension of the militarized police force. So in that way, it was like, oh, yeah, that like he he seems too laid back to me, whereas Wesley Snipes, I’ll grant you the flashbacks you were, you were spot on. He’s definitely it’s weird because watching it and re watching it, I found myself thinking there are a lot of movies where he’s much more charming. I don’t know if this was a choice of the way his PTSD as he was just like, Look, I’m a strong black man who just lost his black queen. And I can’t, I can’t show any emotion. I can’t, I can’t be, I can’t be broken. Yeah, I’ll grant you, it doesn’t feel like his strongest performance. It feels like he maybe put his energy into all of the stunts he was going to do and all the martial arts stuff, which I feel like, if that’s the trade off, if we’re going to get if we’re going to get flying, flailing limbs and a botox face, then I’ll take it.

 

Chris Duffy  11:58

It’s a fair trade off, for sure. But I agree. He’s my he’s very charming, and white man can’t jump. And in this they almost make a point of, like, every time someone is charmed by him, he like, looks at them with disgust and walks away. Like they have a scene where, like, the TSA lady is like, Oh, hello, Wesley Snipes, and he’s like, that’s disgusting. Let’s get to the plane, what?

 

Wyatt Cenac  12:19

But also, we should say the TSA lady like she molests him.

 

Chris Duffy  12:26

Absolutely, she goes away. She’s like, I’m gonna have to give you the pat down myself. And then they’re just like, you actually really don’t we could just go back through the scanner one more time.

 

Wyatt Cenac  12:36

No, and then she’s just groping at him. And it feels like, on the one hand, I could understand why he might be a little put off by that. On the other, sort of connected to that. It does feel weird that, as a guy whose whole sole job is like security, that he didn’t at any point say, hey, you know Claire over there. You should maybe reassign her.

 

Chris Duffy  12:59

As head of security for the airline. I have some feedback on some of your frontline workers.

 

Wyatt Cenac  13:03

Yeah, you maybe just have her as the person who checks passports. She doesn’t need a she doesn’t she doesn’t need to be Yeah,around the wands.

 

Ronald young Jr.  13:13

We’ll be back with more Pop Culture Debate Club after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  14:44

Chris, we’ve already talked a point break when it comes to Keanu Reeves Absolutely. But by the time he had done Speed, which was his 21st movie, and he’d already done the science fiction buddy comedies Bill and Ted, so he was kind of a known quantity at that point. So how important was Speed to Keanu’s career?

 

Chris Duffy  15:00

It was the first time for many people to see Keanu Reeves, especially like this. And I think, you know, he kind of was, he could have been like one of the like, almost like stoner slacker actors, if he hadn’t had this. But instead, he got to bring that, like, laid back cool to kicking ass. And I think as a result.

 

Ronald young Jr.  15:19

You see policing to policing.

 

Chris Duffy  15:21

That’s right. And, you know, I listen, I’m not gonna defend there’s some very militarized policing in this movie. And also both movies, they are like, at the end, they’re like, what a great victory. And I’m like, six people were executed in front of all the other passengers. That’s horrific. And they’re like, We did it. We nailed it. So the definitions of success are pretty strange in both but I think Keanu This is a huge moment for him. And I also think, as a style icon, watching this in 2024 there’s a scene where he’s like, walking around right before a bus explodes in Venice, and he’s wearing this, like plaid over shirt. And I’m like, That man would be ruining people’s lives in Venice, California today.

 

Wyatt Cenac  16:03

His outfit does. I will grant you his outfit. You could wear his outfit today. I feel like if you tried to wear Wesley Snipes outfit, it would, you would look, yeah, just a dad. It’s, it’s not great. Also, there’s a weird thing in Passenger 57 that they never really address, which is that Wesley Snipes stole a jacket.

 

Chris Duffy  16:29

Absolutely, he’s wearing, like, a kind of funny looking leather jacket that he steals for kind of no reason.

 

Wyatt Cenac  16:35

Yeah, he takes a motorcycle jacket out of the someone’s checked luggage. And we never really addressed the fact that, yeah, he’s wearing it, and it fits him, but it’s not his. There’s never a moment where, as people are getting off that plane at the end, there’s some guy who’s like, hey, wait a minute, that looks like my jacket.

 

Chris Duffy  16:55

He wanted the payoff of that moment. I understand.

 

Wyatt Cenac  16:57

Yeah, Janice, is that my jacket? That’s my jacket.

 

Chris Duffy  17:02

Wait, but definitely that is quite revealing of you, Wyatt, that like you are, you’ve been involved in a violent hijacking, and the man who saves you, as you’re exiting the plane, you’re like, but that’s my jacket, yeah?

 

Wyatt Cenac  17:17

But the thing I will say, as a just as kind of a counter to what you were saying about the importance of speed in Keanu Reeves career. The one pushback I might give to that is that they made a speed too, and he wanted nothing to do with it. And so it feels like, from a value standpoint, he doesn’t value the franchise enough to say, oh, we should keep doing this. Sandra Bullock was on board Keanu Reeves felt like he had moved beyond this. And not just moved beyond it. Moved beyond Sandra Bullock and the tune man.

 

Ronald young Jr.  17:58

Well, they would be, they would be together in another film later, a couple of times they paired up, I think two more times after speed. So he was not done with Sandra Bullock, but you are absolutely correct in him being done with the franchise. I’m curious in terms of copaganda, and we’ll start with you, Wyatt, which of these movies do you think is the more egregious form of copaganda?

 

Wyatt Cenac  18:19

Oh, I’m gonna go speed 100% I mean, it’s SWAT team. It is a very militarized police department where they’re doing anything and everything they want. The beginning when there’s an elevator, they just go and take construction equipment without any, without any like request or anything, and just supersede like all rules, and are just kind of maverick cops that are going to do whatever the hell they want. And early and also within that, in the beginning of the movie, Keanu Reeves sets forth the way that he believes policing should work, which is, if someone has a hostage, you shoot the hostage to get to the threat. When I when I oh, that’s true. When I think about Passenger 57 Wesley Snipes isn’t a cop. He’s the security for the airplane, which gets into a conversation about private security and then sort of private policing, which is a different which is a different thing, and that would have been season seven of problem areas if HBO hadn’t canceled it, but you he doesn’t work for the police department, and what you see at every turn in his interactions with law enforcement, the FBI Is inept in that they just put a guy who hijacks planes for a living on a plane last minute, without telling anybody. The local police in whatever town in Louisiana the plane has an emergency landing in those guys are all inept, and so it feels like, if anything. Thing, it’s really very critical of our law enforcement. It’s a weird thing, though, because it seems to say, well, you know, airplane airplane security could solve all our problems.

 

Chris Duffy  20:14

I mean, look, I think it’s hard to argue that speed is not the bigger copaganda of these two because the hero is a cop. And, you know, Wesley Snipes is a private security expert. He’s trying to teach a class on how the flight attendants can defend themselves. And Keanu Reeves is a cop who pulls his gun on a truly innocent man, just so he could steal the guy’s car so that he could drive up to the bus. That’s one scene where I was like, you literally, you did not have to hurt involve this civilian at all. And if you knew you were gonna get into a high speed car chase, you could have at least said, Sir, exit the vehicle. But it’s that he’s like, nope, your life is at risk too.

 

Wyatt Cenac  20:54

Slide over tune, man.

 

Chris Duffy  20:56

Exactly, I will say the one piece maybe in its favor of complicating the view of police is that the bad guy, spoiler alert, you’ve had 30 years, the bad guy in speed is a police officer. So it’s not like it’s just cops. And you know.

 

Wyatt Cenac  21:16

One bad egg is what I’m hearing.

 

Chris Duffy  21:18

He’s a one day they found the one bad apple, and by the end, they’ve tried to kill him, but successfully blown up another residential house in a neighborhood for no reason so

 

Wyatt Cenac  21:28

And a plane and a plane in a plane.

 

Chris Duffy  21:30

Oh, there is so much wanton destruction in speed of of public and private property that like does not need to happen at all. And also, like Wyatt said, it’s incredible that when they are doing their first pop quiz hot shot, they’re like, describing a hostage situation, and they say, What would you do? And they skip right past negotiate to shoot the hostage in the leg.

 

Wyatt Cenac  21:53

Yeah, there is no de escalation. Is just shoot the leg. Here’s one other thing I will say about why I feel Speed is the is the more destructive piece of copaganda, and I think we both seem to agree on it. But just as the as the extra piece of icing to put down on this copaganda cake, the music and Speed that you’re hearing that score winds up then getting used again in another bit of copaganda, the bad boys franchise that dun […] , Michael Bay just takes that exact composition and that becomes all of The pivotal scenes of bad boys, another bit of copaganda that is like it has set a tone that, oh, if you want a big cop action sequence, this is the music. And so I feel like the legacy of speed is really more its score that has now underscored Michael Bay’s Bad Boys franchise.

 

Chris Duffy  23:03

But Ronald, there’s an interesting trivia fact about passenger 57 which is that the score from passenger 57 has been used in every single porn movie made between then and now.

 

Wyatt Cenac  23:13

And what’s wrong with that? Where’s the copaganda there?

 

Chris Duffy  23:17

Absolutely nothing. Oh, God.

 

Ronald young Jr.  23:21

Y’all are both writers. Y’all have some awareness of what it takes to write a script. So let’s talk about scripts. There are some classic, quotable lines in both movies that we’ve kind of already talked about a little bit, but also both movies were heavily rewritten from their original scripts to become the cinematic masterpieces that we know and love today. Chris, can you give me an example of a line or some dialog from speed that stands out to you?

 

Chris Duffy  23:45

Truly one of the lines that is recurring in the movie and that happens so many times. Pop quiz hot shot, I think that is like just as three words. That’s such a good trio of words people use that all the time, and don’t even know that it came from here. Pop quiz, hot shot. That’s great speed has a few of the like, great post death one liners. Like, there’s a moment where Keanu Reeves is fighting the terrorist, and they’re on top of the train, and he sees that the signal is about to cut the guy’s head off, and the terrorist is yelling at Keanu Reeves. He’s going, I’m smarter, I’m smarter. And right as the guy gets decapitated, Canada reef says, Yeah, well, I’m taller. I mean, that’s a perfect that’s a perfect one line. And then later on, when someone says, what happened to him, he goes, he lost his head, which is just almost sociopathic after you’ve watched a man be killed inches from your face. And also, you know, Sandra Bullock look, one of the like fantastic parts of speed is that they say, she says, I have to tell you that I I just had my license suspended. And they say, for what she says, for speeding. That’s, I’m a huge fan of any time the name of the movie comes up in the dialog, like Jennifer Lopez, class of. Movie where it’s called enough, and at one point she says, that’s enough, and looks at the camera. Kind of this is that for Speed.

 

Ronald young Jr.  25:06

She just stares directly, breaks the fourth wall, stairs directly.

 

Chris Duffy  25:11

Right into the camera, and says, for speeding.

 

Wyatt Cenac  25:15

I feel like one of the things I love about Passenger 57 both movies you could, you could probably have engineers and scientists and random and various people go through and break down why these things would not work. Why? Like climbing in the in the, you know, on the wheel well of an airplane, you probably wouldn’t survive. There’s plenty.

 

Chris Duffy  25:42

Certainly doesn’t get you into the passenger area of the plane, grab onto the wheels.

 

Wyatt Cenac  25:47

Yeah, and so in the beginning of the movie, I feel like one of those head scratchers is the revelation that this guy has had multiple plastic surgeries to change his face and that somehow I know nothing about cosmetic surgery, but I have to imagine that you can’t change your face that much having seen Jocelyn Wildenstein, the woman who spent a lot of money to make her face look like a cat.

 

Chris Duffy  26:21

If you look at the incredible pull to have the full name for that at the tip of your tongue, oh.

 

Wyatt Cenac  26:26

Jocelyn Wildenstein lives in my brain rent free. But if you look at the if you look at her pre surgery and post surgery, you can still see a lot of Jocelyn Wildenstein in there, like, there’s not, I don’t know how many plastic surgeries one can have where it’s like, all right, I looked like George Clooney. Now make me look like Brad Pitt. Okay, now make me look like Colin Farrell. Now make me look like somebody else. I don’t know that science that we have, the science for that and that to me, just as the movie started, told me everything I needed to know of okay, yeah, this is a weird, wacky cartoon world. And then it became a cartoon world when that guy, Ben, said he didn’t want anesthesia.

 

Chris Duffy  27:18

Yeah, that’s important.

 

Ronald young Jr.  27:20

Wait, Wyatt, do you like Passenger 57 ?

 

Wyatt Cenac  27:25

I love it because I think it’s, it’s like a cartoon. It is, I feel like the thing. Part of what I appreciate about an action movie is the suspension of disbelief.

 

Chris Duffy  27:38

I agree with that, and I just want to say to push again for speed, as far as writing over Passenger 57 like speed has all these great one liners and stuff like that. But I think that the thing that Passenger 57 has that really threw me for a loop is it’s like the people who wrote Passenger 57 heard the rule about Chekhov’s gun and were like, I bet you that I can do that as many times as possible and never use the gun sometimes, quite literally, there’s one scene where, like, the cop gives him a gun and he says, like, Please bring my wife’s gun back. And then, like, two seconds later, it just falls on the ground and never comes back again. They’re like, literally, the gun is not relevant in any way or like White is saying at the very beginning of the movie, they say this man has changed his face hundreds of times, and then he has the same face for the whole rest of the movie, even when he’s given opportunities to change his face, like, why doesn’t he just look different? It’s so baffling. But they really just do that over and over and over again. And I have to in some way salute them for introducing so many guns and then refusing to use them?

 

Wyatt Cenac  28:42

Yeah, no, that’s, I think that’s part of what makes it so much fun. I understand Chris why you feel like speed has a lot of great one liners, and by making your case for speed, you’re also a Joss Whedon apologist, since he wrote all those one liners. So sure if you want to be a Joss Whedon apologist, wow, which it sounds like you are, then yes, put your vote in for speed and Joss Whedon. Oh, my God.

 

Ronald young Jr.  29:18

Well, let’s ask you this my final question before we get to closing arguments, Chris through a 2024 lens, how does Passenger 57 hold up?

 

Chris Duffy  29:28

I think that. I mean, it’s a fun movie. There’s no doubt about it. I think that it doesn’t hold up for you know, there’s really not a lot of depth to the female characters. They’re not given a lot they’re making, the actors are doing the best with what they’re given, but there’s not a lot on the page. And then there’s definitely some weird, like, racial dynamics between they land in this, like, southern town in Louisiana, and the cop definitely, like, is using racially charged language to. Words towards the all the black characters. But at the end, they’re like, good friends, which just feels like, what, what he did not, he never, like, apologized.

 

Wyatt Cenac  30:11

For they were flying the Confederate flag at the carnival.

 

Chris Duffy  30:14

So there’s kind of like this, like, touch of racial menace. But then at the end, they’re like, actually, they’re pretty good guys. And I feel like that does not really hold up.

 

Speaker 1  30:24

Wyatt, what do you think does, uh, speed hold up to the lens of 2024 watching it today.

 

Wyatt Cenac  30:29

I feel like, you know, passenger 57 as a that concept of taking over an airplane and doing that, we’ve seen that kind of get remade as the Idris Elba show hijack. Yes, not a direct but it very much is in the vein of passenger 57 there the tension, the tension and higher stakes that you perhaps wished that you had in passenger 57 that were kind of taken over by popcorn silliness you’re getting in a hijack. I don’t know if a situation like speed could exist on today’s city busses, given the amount of Instagram and Tiktok videos of people just doing out of pocket shit on busses and just fighting. I don’t know that. I feel like, if somebody, if Keanu Reeves hopped on a bus and was like, there’s a bomb on this bus, it can’t slow down, people would just say, shut the fuck up. I don’t even know that Dennis Hopper could get access to the bus to install a camera and a bunch of bombs. I feel like, if he tried to do that in New York, he’d have to fight off a bunch of rats that have been nesting in the radiator. And so I think in those ways, passenger 57 we’ve seen a version of it with hijack. I feel like with speed, the best versions that we’ve seen are videos that get passed around on Tiktok of just people punching each other and like over random silliness. So that that’s so I guess both have been remade. It’s just, do you want prestige apple plus tv? Or do you want some Tiktok videos of two guys jousting with skateboards?

 

Chris Duffy  32:29

I’m also, I’m not sure I even disagree with Wyatt on the idea that if you tried to make Speed in 2024 people would be like, hit the brakes and let the buzz blow. I dare you.

 

Wyatt Cenac  32:42

That’s fine. I didn’t want to go to work anyway.

 

Chris Duffy  32:45

I’d rather blow up.

 

Ronald young Jr.  32:47

We’ll be back with more PCDC after this break.

 

Speaker 2  32:59

Let’s get to our closing arguments and Wyatt, we’ll start with you closing argument. Passenger 57 is a better movie thanSpeed.

 

Wyatt Cenac  34:30

As I said before it’s in the plane longer you’re selling this idea on danger in one. Location, and they really do a good job of that. But also I feel like, if you’re gonna go and revisit a movie that’s 30 years old, I don’t know that given the you know what special effects were back then, just like costumes, music, all of those things, just the ways in which people acted. I feel like the thing I want is ridiculous, and this movie is fun, and how ridiculous it is that moment where, you know, the guy, they get into a weird a weird fight in the sort of underneath of the airplane. Like, is it really that big down there? Like, what’s like, Could you really, is it that big? What’s huge question I have, what’s with all the smoke everywhere, there was dry ice everywhere, like, and those are things that I feel like I don’t know those, those, to me, are the fun things that if you’re going to watch an old movie that you kind of get to enjoy and reflect on, yeah, like, let’s, let’s try to use our imaginations to figure out why they had such a big dry ice budget.

 

Ronald young Jr.  36:11

Chris Duffy, give you your closing argument. Why is Speed a better movie than Passenger 57?

 

Chris Duffy  36:17

I mean, it’s 2024 everyone wants to be a celebrity. Everyone wants to be a star. We’re constantly filming ourselves. We’re putting ourselves out there. We’re trying to build an audience. And you know what? What does that mean? It means that you look around at your daily life, I’m sure you’ve been in an elevator at some point in the past year. I bet you you’ve been on a city street. I bet you you might have taken a bus, maybe you took a train. Maybe you’ve hijacked someone’s car and driven it as fast as you can. This is how you can be an action star. This is a movie where you can imagine yourself as the main character, because you, like Sandra Bullock, could be running for public transportation and then discovered that there was a bomb on the bus that you just boarded. This is one where it could happen in your daily life. And so as you’re driving around, as you’re riding the bus, you can imagine, this is me. My life could change right now. Keanu Reeves could jump in and start saving my life. Also, as we’ve said, Pop quiz. Hot Shot, very fun thing to say. Keanu Reeves’ outfits, very fun looking to wear. Sandra Bullock, how could you deny America and the world the start of this career? So you can laugh, you can cry, you can imagine yourself moving quickly through a city. That’s why I think Speed is a great movie.

 

Ronald young Jr.  37:33

I am ready to issue my ruling. This has been, this has been a lot of fun.

 

Chris Duffy  37:37

Oh, you’re the judge?

 

Ronald young Jr.  37:38

I’m the judge.

 

Chris Duffy  37:40

Oh, my God, I thought this was voted on by a jury of our girls.

 

Ronald young Jr.  37:44

I am your peer, and I have voted, as you all know. I’ll be as we know, like here on Pop Culture Debate Club. The goal is to get to two to one. Currently we are at 111, you are both trying to convince me to make this a majority opinion, and I am the deciding vote here. So with that being said, listening to both of your arguments and having watched both movies, but.

 

Chris Duffy  38:06

What if we just kept interrupting? So this lasted forever, because I like hanging out with you too. What if I never let you finish and we just kept adding post scripts and addendums.

 

Ronald young Jr.  38:15

You can absolutely try, but at some point you’re gonna want this ruling, Chris Duffy.

 

Wyatt Cenac  38:21

That makes it sound like I know where this ruling is going, so I’m just gonna keep interrupting.

 

Ronald young Jr.  38:24

Yeah, the funny thing is, why? Like, it seems like both of you have, like, kind of lapsed into the avoidant argument at this point. We don’t want a ruling. We just want to keep arguing about this until it’s over.

 

Chris Duffy  38:36

Two men uncomfortable with arguing, but very comfortable with filibustering.

 

Wyatt Cenac  38:42

Yeah, been pop culture filibuster. Oh, we we’d be on every episode.

 

Chris Duffy  38:48

Absolutely.

 

Wyatt Cenac  38:48

I’m gonna read from I’m gonna read from a magazine. Part of my filibuster, yeah, the cult of true detective was crystallized and attracted What is this? It’s just New York Magazine about polyamory.

 

Ronald young Jr.  39:04

You had that just ready, just in arms reach, ready to go.

 

Wyatt Cenac  39:07

Yeah, and also, don’t use that, because I think my address is, let me don’t worry.  It’s we didn’t see it.

 

Ronald young Jr.  39:13

Okay, here’s the ruling. Here we go. So I watched both movies, both when they came well, both in the 90s, that when they came out, I was very young, but I watched them in the 90s, and I also watched them recently, what I found is that one in is that they are both action movies. They are both very much thrillers of the 90s. Here’s where they differ. I believe that Passenger 57 is a very good film for Wesley Snipes. If you look at what happens to Wesley Snipes next. After that he does rising sun, Demolition Man, drop zone, money train, murder at 1600 US Marshals, and it leads all the way up to 1998 when he’s in Blade, essentially so if anything, passenger, 57 is a great movie for Wesley Snipes, and it is a ramp up. Two blade. Unfortunately, Wyatt, you didn’t really argue that. I knew that that was the case. And had you brought that up, I think that would have given passenger 57 a little bit more heft. The problem is, it’s up against speed. Speed is a great action movie from beginning to end. It is just high stakes, if you feel it the whole time. And the name is appropriate. You know, the bus gimmick is a gimmick in the movie, and it is appropriate before the pace at which every single one of these traps is happening. Wyatt, which is what made it more interesting for me watching it along the way. The other thing that I think is interesting is it’s not focused on one person in many ways. Speed is an ensemble action movie. Everyone is valuable. Even the bit parts on the bus matter in terms of what they’re contributing to the plot, even the captain that they’re working with on the SWAT team. All of that becomes important. Watching that especially, especially when I watched in 2024 I remember watching and feeling the same way that when I watched predator recently, where I’m just like, wow, this is a movie that if they updated the technology and made it today, I would still watch this. Sure smartphones would be involved, sure there would be somebody on the bus that said, I don’t care if there’s a pop here. All of that stuff is 100% true, but it doesn’t stop it from being a better movie. And unfortunately, why? In some ways, in your argument, you then started to argue against Passenger 57 being a good movie, even though I do appreciate you liking a ridiculous movie. So unfortunately for you, and fortunately for Chris Duffy, my ruling is that Speed is the better movie the passenger 57.

 

Wyatt Cenac  41:28

So what you’re saying is you’re pro copaganda. All right cool.

 

Chris Duffy  41:33

Saying almost explicitly Wyatt is that his decision has almost nothing to do with anything that either of us said, just with his his opinion that he formed when he watched the movie. Watched the movies recently?

 

Ronald young Jr.  41:45

There was room, there was room to be swayed by both of you, you guys just went.

 

Wyatt Cenac  41:51

But to be swayed by answers you already had.

 

Chris Duffy  41:54

That’s right. That’s exactly right. You were asked, you could have said the things I’d already decided, and that would have changed my opinion.

 

Ronald young Jr.  41:59

Yes, maybe it could have, and it might have, but it did not. Unfortunately, I appreciate you both being here. Why it’s an act, where can everybody find you?

 

Wyatt Cenac  42:08

I mean, I guess I have a website. That’s wyattcenac.com, and when there’s stuff that I’m doing, it’ll usually show up there. There’s a mailing list you can subscribe to and I’m criminally underemployed right now.

 

Ronald young Jr.  42:28

Oh, okay, you want to end there?

 

Wyatt Cenac  42:30

Yeah, if anybody’s listening, yeah, I’m a free agent.

 

Ronald young Jr.  42:38

You can always come back and argue something else here.

 

Wyatt Cenac  42:41

Wait, we’re getting paid, oh?

 

Ronald young Jr.  42:44

Chris Duffy, where can the folks? Where can the folks find you?

 

Chris Duffy  42:49

You can find me at Wyatt synacks residential address, which is located in downtown Brooklyn, at and you can also find me. You can also find me at Chrisduffycomedy.com where I got all of my stuff. I have a newsletter and my events, and you can read my audiobook or listen to my audiobook and other stuff on there.

 

Ronald young Jr.  43:11

Thank you both so much for being here. It’s been a pleasure.

 

Wyatt Cenac  43:14

Thank you, although I lost so I’m a little annoyed about that, but whatever.

 

CREDITS  43:27

There’s more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content, like Chris and Wyatt talking about their earliest experiences with mass transit. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC.   It’s produced by Jamela Zarha Williams, Kryssy Pease,  Dani Matias and me, Ronald young Jr. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our Senior Vice President of weekly content  and production is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.   Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.