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Aminatou Sow must pick between actor Carl Tart’s choice of the original Space Jam (1996) and TV writer Lamar Woods’s selection of D2: The Mighty Ducks (1994). Which is a more fearsome opponent, aliens or Iceland? Who is a better coach, Michael Jordan or Gordon Bombay? How realistic is the sports action in each film? Which one better stands up to the test of time? Aminatou asks these questions and more in order to crown the best sports film of all time.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Lamar Woods, Aminatou Sow, Carl

Aminatou Sow  00:00

Hi, I’m Aminatou Sow and I’m a writer who loves pop culture. So welcome to Pop Culture Debate Club from Lemonada and the BBC. We bring on some of the funniest, smartest folks in the biz to go head to head over TV, music and movies that we love. And because I’m the judge, I get to choose the winner.

 

Aminatou Sow  02:08

So welcome to our first episode. We knew we needed to kick this season off with some hot competition, so we have Carl Tart and Lamar Woods debating the best sports film of all time. Thanks so much for joining us. Today, we’re discussing what you both deem to be the best sports film. Let’s meet our panelists. Joining me today is star of the NBC series, grand crew and frequent Comedy Bang Bang podcast guest, Carl Tart, hi Carl.

 

Carl  02:40

Hi.

 

Aminatou Sow  02:41

And also with us is comedian, actor, musician, Lamar Woods, Lamar, your latest album is called highly sensitive person. I feel that welcome to the show.

 

Lamar Woods  02:51

Hey, what’s up, Mommy […] how you doing? Thanks for having me so happy to be here. It’s a beautiful day.

 

Aminatou Sow  02:57

Before we get into our picks. I’d like to get to know the both of you a little bit. I know that you co hosted a Gossip Girl recap podcast called XOXO gossip kings. Can you tell me a little bit about how that started?

 

Carl  03:09

We have been trying to figure out a podcast to do together, because we talk a lot of shit. Oh, you know, it’d be really funny if we did a Gossip Girl watch and re watch podcast. So I’m watching in real time, and he had already seen it.

 

Lamar Woods  03:22

I just fell in love with it. I thought it was such a good show, or it definitely kept me, you know, kept my spirits high during that pandemic. That was a crazy time. It was a lot of gossip.

 

Carl  03:29

Girl for three years, watched it in real time, and I only got a couple spoilers. And I want to thank everybody who listened and who kept me safe from any type of big spoilers, because I finished the show and I was just as disappointed as everybody was in 2012.

 

Aminatou Sow  03:45

Okay, well, we’re gonna talk about sports today. I’m gonna tell you a little bit about, like, my relationship with sports. Like, I am African. I grew up in Africa, in Europe. I’m a soccer girly. I’m a long time painful supporter of Manchester United, so I’ve had, it’s like, I know heartbreak, you know, I know, like, have had some, like, elating years, and some years where it’s just, we’re gonna cry today, but, and I try to keep it in check, because sometimes I’m like, you know, like the sports fandom, it’s like a little it’s like, one area in life where I’m like, wow, like things are about to go off the rails, like the friends are about to fight something, it’s about to go down here. Can you tell me, like, what kind of sports fan you are? Are you like, do you think that you’re chill? Are you a little psychotic? Like, be honest.

 

Carl  04:27

I wouldn’t say psychotic, but I definitely am very anxious. I hate certain players, and so when they’re being successful, I’m really upset. I’m a big sports guy. I played all the major American sports through my, throughout my entire life, and I played, I played basketball in college. There’s never a conversation that goes by without me mentioning that, and I will give it all up right now. I’ll give up my whole career to just get one free throw in the NBA game but regardless.

 

Lamar Woods  04:56

They should do that, like at three throw instead, like how people do the first pitch. They should. What celebrities do.

 

Carl  05:00

Celebrities shoot a free throw.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:01

They should do that, but they should ask you how much you’re willing to give up. And it’s like, you gotta give your 401, K to the league. You know, you’re like, here’s my child. You’re like, what are you gonna mortgage in your life? And then you get to do that.

 

Carl  05:14

If I’m just doing a ceremonial opening free throw, I’m not giving them nothing. But if they’re like, you can suit up tonight and we guarantee you four minutes in the game, I would give up quite a bit. And I know that stupid.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:25

What team are you suiting up for?

 

Carl  05:27

The Clippers. I’m a clipper fan. So you know pain and suffering too, yeah, but hold on now, because I wanted to, I wanted to ask you about this Manchester United pain and suffering thing. I’m not big on soccer. I can’t say that. I am so sorry to all the international fans. I actually was in Europe during a World Cup one time, and I was being real obnoxious about how bored I was.

 

Aminatou Sow  05:49

How what talk to me about this? I don’t understand how you can be bored by it. I was like, all these feet pushing a ball forward, like, What are you talking? Drama? Like, what are you even talking?

 

Carl  06:02

I got a couple things. About that. We’re gonna be here up for a long time. I’m not too Okay. Great. We’re here. I was being obnoxious about the World Cup. The World Cup was actually exciting. If it’s just six o’clock in the morning and I’m watching today, it’s the silly 90s versus that. I’m not watching that. I ain’t watching it.

 

Aminatou Sow  06:17

Watching a racehorse?

 

Lamar Woods  06:20

It is Munich versus coming on Thursday. It’s like I got 2525 lady in the hat lady and 25 35,000 I’m a little different. Yeah, I kind of go in and out of sports fandom. But I think, I think I like players more than I like teams. Like, I really like Anthony Edwards. I like watching that story line and seeing how that plays out, or like Jalen Bronson. So I think I’m just like, I really like to get into the like character.

 

Carl  06:47

They were embarrassing me. We was watching the game the other night. They was embarrassing because him and my our other best friend, Phil, they’re two very level headed dudes, and I look up to them both quite a bit, and so I’m sitting here just pissed off at this game that has no bearing on my life whatsoever, but it’s truly raising my blood pressure. And I just look at them, I look at it, and I feel like I’m ruining the mood. I’m ruining the mood because I’m just like, and they’re just like, sitting there kind of sipping on their Margarita. And I’m like, I wish I could just not care yeah.

 

Aminatou Sow  07:17

I have a theory of social like social gender engineering, that sports is one of the only areas that we let men have big feelings and you don’t get punished for it.

 

Lamar Woods  07:26

Yeah, but I could see I feel it happening, like, I think part of my lack of emotional reactions just because I don’t watch it enough. Like I’ve been following probably this year more with football and basketball, more than I ever have. Like I was in a bad mood the other day when Nick’s lost, and I was kind of like, where’s this why am I sad? And I was like, Oh, wait. I think I wanted them to really win, like, and I was like, oh, it’s like, I was like, feeling it. But I think it take, like, Carlo has been a fan of sport, you know, he’s following the Clippers your whole life. Yeah, that is gonna, like, have a reaction when things don’t go well. So I have, I do have a relationship with sports. I just don’t have that like that fire that everyone else has.

 

Aminatou Sow  08:03

Carl, can you tell me what film you chose today?

 

Carl  08:05

Okay, the film I chose today is the 1997 I should have googled that before I came in here, but I think I got it right, the 1997 Michael Jordan, Warner Brothers, outlet Space Jam, 96 okay, you can keep that. You can you can leave in my snafu. I don’t mind.

 

Aminatou Sow  08:31

Okay, let’s do it again.

 

Carl  08:32

Okay, I chose the 1996 Warner Brothers and Michael Jordan, outlet Space Jam, and I know that from the top of the dome. And this is not an edit and keep it like this.

 

Aminatou Sow  08:46

Did you immediately think of space hammer? Were there other contenders there.

 

Carl  08:49

Was other contenders. Some of the other contenders for me were water boy. That’s a fun sports movie. Blue Chips. I think that’s one of the best movies ever. I love that period Draft Day, which don’t get the credit it deserves, but those are some of the other contenders. But Space Jam. I was like, that’s probably the one that I’ve seen the most, that one. Oh, Moneyball. Oh damn, I don’t think about Moneyball. Moneyball dinger. That’s a movie, right there.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:17

Moneyball is so good. I’m like, I don’t care about baseball, and I love Moneyball.

 

Carl  09:21

Can I tell you a fun fact? I’m gonna not too.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:23

Yes, tell me.

 

Carl  09:24

I was in Moneyball.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:25

What, where, how?

 

Carl  09:27

I played for the Oakland A’s in Moneyball, you’ll never see me because I was not visible on camera. I was a so cool. I was a background actor back in the day before they started letting me talk. Big mistake. And then, yeah, that. But I was, I was in Moneyball, 2009 I was 19 years old.

 

Lamar Woods  09:46

That’s crazy. I didn’t know that.

 

Aminatou Sow  09:48

Okay, Lamar, What movie did you pick today?

 

Lamar Woods  09:50

I picked the 1994 sequel to mighty dutts. D2 the Mighty Ducks. Yeah, and I love it. Very excited, and I can’t wait to talk more. Got it. As Carl was talking, I was like, Oh, I could have picked that one any given Sunday. Was one of the was my other. I was thinking about that one Any Given Sunday, and then I was thinking about The Sandlot is one of my favorites, Little Big League. I love little big league. Yeah, I love the program, old school throwback joint.

 

Aminatou Sow  10:21

I mean, a sequel is bold. Why didn’t you go with the first Mighty Ducks?

 

Lamar Woods  10:25

Well, I just personally like watching, watching it more, you know, I like the first Mighty Ducks too, but the sequel is just like so much more fun. And they bring in, I think the stakes are just higher in that one. And it’s like they’re fighting for the world, you know, the championship. It’s like, it’s a whole lot of, just a lot of things going on emotionally for everybody.

 

Aminatou Sow  10:43

The way that movie was, when I was a kid, I thought that, like, Iceland was, like, a big, bad superpower, you know? I was like, oh, Iceland is, like, Iceland is World War Two Germany. Like, that’s what’s going on here. And, yeah, I was like, I had no idea it’s, like, a tiny I was like, You’re telling me there’s more people in the Gowanus Whole Foods than like in all of Iceland. Now I know that, but I didn’t know that at the time. Okay, we’ll be taking a quick break, but we’ll be right back with opening arguments. Stick around.

 

Aminatou Sow  13:52

Okay, so let’s get into it. The very lax rules of our show are as follows. It’s basically your mission to win me over with your argument like it’s all about arguing here. Why is this the best sports film? Carl, I’m gonna start with you. You selected Space Jam. What is it about this movie, and why do you consider it to be the best sports film?

 

Carl  14:49

Okay, we got to go from tip to toe with this one. The opening of the movie, the soundtrack of the movie, where we starting with Quad City, DJs. Everybody get. Up. It’s time to slam now. We got a real jam going down. Welcome to the Space Jam, and it’s just showing Michael Jordan highlights starting off the movie like that, showing us Michael Jordan’s childhood and him wanting to be a basketball player, and then showing where he what he literally became like. Everything about this movie is great, the all the cameos from the other players, the players that represent my early, early childhood. You got Larry Johnson in the movie. You got Muggsy Bose, who was like, Muggsy Bose was a huge inspiration to short people. I personally don’t relate you guys.

 

Aminatou Sow  15:35

Like, I’m not gonna like, you get away with that, just trying to keep it cool. But I was like, that is wild.

 

Carl  15:43

Sean Bradley, who was dope, Charles Barkley. That’s what we this is where we first kind of got to see Charles Barkley’s real personality now. Now Charles Barkley is everybody’s uncle, beloved, like hilarious dude. We love to watch him post game.

 

Aminatou Sow  15:55

Incredible pivot, incredible personality pivot.

 

Carl  15:58

Yeah, also such comedic greatness from the Looney Tunes, from Bucks buddy himself, like Porky Pig getting his hoop on like this movie is just out of this world.

 

Aminatou Sow  16:11

Do you remember the first time that you saw it? Do you remember what it felt like?

 

Carl  16:14

I do. I went to go see this film at the silver screen movie theater in Biloxi, Mississippi, at the Edgewater Mall. That’s where I’m from. And the silver screen was cool because it had you sat at, like, on the sides, you know, they had like, regular theater seats in the middle, but on the sides they had tables with kind of swivel chairs, and they would deliver pizza and sodas in the in the clear picture. So fancy for 1996 I love it. It It definitely ain’t there no more. I don’t believe, but this, that’s where I saw this movie, and I was truly inspired. I think that’s what started my basketball journey.

 

Aminatou Sow  16:48

Lamar, can you describe d2 to me and how you first experienced it?

 

Lamar Woods  16:53

Well, I don’t remember the first time I saw it, to be honest. I think I might have saw it in class, like one of those. It was like, we were all in class together, and we needed a movie to watch, or, like a subject.

 

Aminatou Sow  17:03

One of those teachers that doesn’t want to teach, yeah, and they roll out the cart.

 

Lamar Woods  17:08

Yeah, it’s like, in the closet. It’s like, here we go. Yeah, I remember watching it with a group of kids my age. I remember that in a classroom that feels familiar, indeed, too. They started with a device they do in movies where you get to see every character where they’re at in their life state. So like, say, Goldberg is, like, working at the deli with his family, and then we got to go get him, and they give Charlie Conway, who’s the leader. They give him this, like, this whistle that makes the sound of duck makes. And it goes, yeah, and yeah, he’s just, he’s just blowing it. And everyone hears the call, and they all get back together and head to LA and they represent, uh, they represent the USA, and go out for the gold and and there’s a lot of challenges with that, with, you know, the pressure of being on the world stage, that’s what all these kids are dealing with. And they bring in a bunch of new characters that I love, too, where you get to see the old school versus new school. And a lot of them are from different areas of the world, like Texas, Maine and South Central, and they just brought a whole new flavor to the crew. It’s great. I love it.

 

Aminatou Sow  18:10

You know, I’m wondering on a scale of one to 10, how realistic you think the sports action in your pick is?

 

Lamar Woods  18:16

I think you know, what I would say is, one of the reasons I picked this movie is because of the way it depicts hockey. Because I don’t like watching hockey that much, but I’m like they shoot it in a way that’s the most exciting thing I’ve ever seen. I think I would say it’s probably like a seven, seven or eight.

 

Aminatou Sow  18:32

Okay, what about you, Carl?

 

Carl  18:33

Okay, so I’m gonna do I’m gonna be completely honest, the realism in my film is probably a zero.

 

Aminatou Sow  18:43

You don’t think Bugs Bunny is like playing, you know, like, that’s not a 10. What’s happening there?

 

Carl  18:49

No, I don’t think that’s a 10. I don’t think, I don’t think bugs would make it to the league.

 

Aminatou Sow  18:53

So the actual human players, though, like, what do you think?

 

Carl  18:57

Nah, they was playing slow. It was bad. Except for Michael, it was pretty bad the whole time.

 

Lamar Woods  19:04

But I think that’s what makes the film, that’s what makes it a beautiful movie. Is because the cartoon mixing with the real life, and like Michael Jordan still got an Oscar for this film, acting alongside all these people that weren’t there, and still maintaining his competitive edge.

 

Aminatou Sow  19:20

I mean, you know, I was gonna make fun of you. And now that I think about it, I was like, he gave a lot with, like, nothing

 

Carl  19:27

He gave. It’s giving.

 

Lamar Woods  19:31

Also, I was watching it. I was looking at the dialog. They gave us a really easy dialog. Like every line was like, Man, you guys are crazy. It’s like, Why don’t y’all tell me that 15 minutes ago, they had to put nothing on it. Yeah. But anyway, Mighty Ducks.

 

Aminatou Sow  19:51

Man, Lamar, I’ve been going to hockey games, and it’s really weird, because they’re fun in person, like I’ve been going to Rangers games, and I. Realized that part of why hockey cannot translate on TV, it’s because they’re having a really hard time depicting that puck on the screen. So like, in person, I was like, I went in five minutes, and I was like, I don’t care about this five minutes, and I was screaming with everyone. I was like, it was so it moved so fast.

 

Lamar Woods  20:15

Yeah, no, we went to a hockey game not that long ago, and it was really fun. It was like, Yeah, being in person is, like, a totally different experience, because I just can’t follow what’s going on. Follow what’s going on. I don’t know, but, yeah, you see him fight, and they like, fully be fighting, like it’s crazy, like.

 

Carl  20:27

It was a high scoring affair, and we had good seats too. But when it’s high when it’s high scoring, it’s really fun.

 

Aminatou Sow  20:32

So Ty would just drive you nuts.

 

Carl  20:35

I don’t want to edge the whole game. No, I don’t like that.

 

Aminatou Sow  20:38

Wow, okay, well, now that I have a little background on both of your picks. Is there anything that, like, doesn’t hold up in these movies? Is there, you know, or is there something that holds up really well? Or is it something that’s like, you know, you’re like, what’s the good? What’s the bad about re watching these?

 

Carl  20:53

When I saw the second space jam with Lebron in it, I was watching it from the lens of a person in his early 30s, so it probably wasn’t made for me, but the magic that I experienced with the old space gym, every time I still see it, I’m still captivated by it. I still look at it and go, Man, this was fun. And it also just takes you back to that era. The nostalgia factor is what makes the movie hold up, because it is some funny Looney Tunes. Of course, these kids now only like that computer animation, but back in our day, that real just hand drawn, rough stuff. You know what? I mean?

 

Lamar Woods  21:27

Yeah, there’s a scene in spaceship where they spit all over the floor, yeah, at a post COVID society.

 

Aminatou Sow  21:39

That’s not working for me.

 

Lamar Woods  21:40

My move holds up pretty well, I think but there’s one thing that doesn’t hold up to me or like, or maybe it didn’t help hold up back then, either I didn’t understand when I was a kid, there’s a female goalie, Julie the cat, and it’s just like, clearly, she’s like, the best player on the team, but they just will not start her in their original goalie is just awful. He’s probably the worst goalie I’ve ever seen. And this woman is just so talented, and she has to sit on the bench the whole time and wait for the coach at the end to say, finally, it’s your shot. And she gets one shot, like, literally gets to play one second in the whole movie. It’s the most frustrating thing only because they’re like, losing, and it’s like, this person they have starting is just awful, but I guess they’re just loyal to them. And I think that I don’t think, I mean, I would like to think that wouldn’t happen today, but probably would still. But then I also think there’s this other scene where they go to South Central to, like, learn how to play. I don’t know if it doesn’t hold up or not, but there’s definitely something off about it when I watch it now as an adult, there’s like this, this move to like we can only get good if we learn from like children from poverty. And it just kind of like, go, they’re like, these kids are going to teach us how to really.

 

Aminatou Sow  22:51

Like these poor kids. They’re very talented. They will not be going to Team USA. They are the people that will train you.

 

Carl  22:59

Face guys. We’re not taking them on the trip.

 

Aminatou Sow  23:02

I think that so many sports movies fall into that weird, like, racial like, it’s weird. It’s just like, weird. And then in, you know, and in this movie, in d2 you also have the element of, like, America rah, rah. Like, it’s interesting. Part of what I always, I think, enjoyed about Space Jam is that it was just like, silly and goofy, you know? It’s like, well, yeah, there’s definitely some Lola Bunny problems, you know. But it’s like, overall, I’m like, Okay, this, it’s not giving the same energy as these other sports movies that are supposed to teach you a lesson. It was just like, pure entertainment.

 

Lamar Woods  23:35

Yeah, well, I mean, that’s my knock on Space Jam. I learned nothing from that movie.

 

Carl  23:39

I learned everything was patient. Everything got to know.

 

Lamar Woods  23:41

I learned, I re watched it last night for this and I was like, I saw 10 minutes, and I was like, Okay, it’s like, that movie hinges on Michael Jordan’s reputation. Like, it’s like, it only works with Michael Jordan, which really interesting to me that, like, if you can’t put another person in that role.

 

Carl  23:57

You could put some other people in there.

 

Lamar Woods  23:59

Who would you put in.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:00

That, in that time.

 

Carl  24:03

1996 Shaquille O’Neal could have done it, yeah, okay, Shaquille O’Neal could have done it.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:08

I feel like Shaquille O’Neal today’s personality could have done it. Shaquille O’Neal back then, I don’t know.

 

Carl  24:15

He, of course, he wasn’t Michael Jordan’s magnitude. But listen, I’m dying over here. Okay, I can’t lose the d2 Mighty Ducks.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:21

No, yeah. You know, nobody is losing yet. I’m keeping an open mind. Okay, we’re cruising into the next round. It’s kind of a lightning round. I’m gonna ask you both questions that are loosely based around your picks, and I’ll go back and forth between you. Okay, Lamar, what’s more impressive, actually, ducks flying in the V formation, or a bunch of children actors doing it.

 

Lamar Woods  24:45

Yeah, ducks. The Ducks real life. Ducks is way more majestic and beautiful.

 

Aminatou Sow  24:50

Carl, what’s more convincing? Animated Cartoons playing basketball, or professional basketball players acting?

 

Carl  24:56

Animated cartoons playing basketball. Man, some of these. Some of these dudes out here, especially now, it’s crazy that they’ve gotten worse, but some of the personalities in the league right now, with some of the best players, are European, and I don’t want to see them in any movies.

 

Lamar Woods  25:15

I know, even in the commercials. Like Joker in the commercials.

 

Carl  25:18

Yeah just like, get him off my screen.

 

Aminatou Sow  25:20

Welcome. Basketball belongs to the world. Now that’s that’s how we do. Okay? Lamar, indie, to the Mighty Ducks. Iceland is Team USA rival. Their coach’s name, Wolf, the dentist. Stanson, what’s your menacing middle name?

 

Lamar Woods  25:36

The foot doctor.

 

Aminatou Sow  25:41

You sound like a serial killer.

 

Lamar Woods  25:42

I’m the foot doctor. Let me operate.

 

Aminatou Sow  25:45

That’s nice. But you know what? You get points for being put on the spot. About that Carl Space Jam was inspired by a Nike Super Bowl commercial called hair Jordan, a featured Bugs Bunny and Michael Jordan brands are having a real moment with their product. Biopic films, air Barbie, unfrosted. What’s something equally insane that you’d like to see made into a full length film?

 

Carl  26:08

Okay, right now I like to see the wing stop Jenga competition. No flex. I want the wing stop movie. I want Brian Tyree Henry to play Rick Ross in a wing stop movie.

 

Aminatou Sow  26:24

You know what? Let’s offline. We’re gonna get this movie made. Like, let’s talk about. Lamar, if you were recruited to be on Team USA when you were 12, what position do you think you would play?

 

Lamar Woods  26:36

I’d be captain. I’d be there for the power forward. That what Charlie Conway play. I want to be the leader.

 

Aminatou Sow  26:42

I love that you immediately. You’re like, Captain.

 

Lamar Woods  26:44

I’m like, that’s not a position. When they do the Flying V I’m up top. I’m that person.

 

Aminatou Sow  26:54

I love that Carl under the coaching of Michael Jordan, who was the most improved player at the end of Space Jam. Do you think?

 

Carl  27:00

I think Porky Pig for sure.

 

Aminatou Sow  27:05

Tell me a little bit about Porky’s like character arc. What happens?

 

Carl  27:09

You know, Porky, when he came in, he was kind of fumbling all over the place, you know, doing his thing, doing his stutter thing, and then by the end of the film, you know, he’s dribbling all over the place.

 

Aminatou Sow  27:21

Wow. Justice for a Porky peg man.

 

Lamar Woods  27:23

Talk about this seriously. It’s hilarious.

 

Carl  27:25

I guess he was doing he was dribbling his handle that got better, his jump shot at got better. You know, he grew a lot of heart. He had no heart when he first started. Porky Pig got to get some hort. And he have no Hort when he first started.

 

Lamar Woods  27:37

I like Foghorn, Fargo and Lang or we got, he got burnt up to the Christian.

 

Aminatou Sow  27:44

Leghorn like, separately, is maybe the most problematic cartoon character that we’ve ever had.

 

Carl  27:51

I thought she was gonna say, I thought you’re gonna say he is the most underratedly funny character, because he is so funny to me. No, he’s funny.

 

Aminatou Sow  27:57

But I’m like, if they had done like me too for the cartoons, he would be out of here. Like, even more intense, even more pebby is foreign, so he’s already, you know what? I mean, he’s like, deported, gone. But Foghorn. Leghorn is, I was like, You’re something weird. Is a foot here where.

 

Carl  28:14

The fog leg horn was like, I say now, boy, they say, you the goat. But I prefer the game from the 1950s.

 

Lamar Woods  28:21

You we gotta rewrite that movie.

 

Aminatou Sow  28:24

It’s also, you know, like, with all the Looney Tunes, you can kind of like, know what race they are. And with him, I’m like, What race is, Foghorn, Leghorn.

 

Carl  28:32

Leghorn is a man from the gin.

 

Lamar Woods  28:35

Who played that the monsters. They were really helping it up when he smashed he turned Bugs Bunny into a pancake, and then he goes to Lola. Is like, is that your man?

 

Aminatou Sow  28:50

Oh, wrong. Okay. Lamar, if Hollywood had a scale that weighed actual God given talent versus Nepo baby juice, where are we putting Emilio Estevez?

 

Lamar Woods  29:02

I would say he’s away up there because I didn’t really know he was a Nepo baby till way after his career. So I put him up there in the top of just full talent. I think he threw something special. Yeah. Emilio.

 

Aminatou Sow  29:17

Carl, you’ve obviously mentioned that you were an athlete. You know, I Googled it. You’re also six five. My question is, can you still dunk and what is that sensation like?

 

Carl  29:29

Okay, so a couple things. I’m not six five, but I’m happy that Google is saying.

 

Aminatou Sow  29:34

Okay, how tall are you?

 

Carl  29:36

I’m six three.

 

Aminatou Sow  29:36

Okay, we’re gonna correct. I’m gonna go into google myself.

 

Carl  29:40

Don’t,  I’m trying to date out here. I currently am no longer able to dunk, but I did dunk up until about you see what years of 2024 I dunked until about 2017 2018 the sensation of dunking a basketball, no laugh I’ve ever gotten during comedy matches, up to the feeling of being able to dunk. In a basketball game and and how you felt after that. But yes, that feeling, the dungeon sensation, especially when you hurt your hand a little bit, because you know you really banged it out.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:10

No, I don’t know. I famously don’t know.

 

Carl  30:13

Yeah, you could go to like a trampoline park. You could.

 

Aminatou Sow  30:17

Well, but the crowd’s not going to be cheering for you at the trampoline park. We’ll be back in a minute, and we’ll declare the winner then.

 

Aminatou Sow  32:04

And we’re back before we declare a winner. I just want to say that this has been really entertaining for me and really enlightening. I think I’m gonna just when we hang up, like, listen to both of these soundtracks on a loop, because, you know, I want to feel like a winner today. I don’t want to work out, but I want to feel like a winner. So that’s probably, that’s the way to do that. You know, this is our final round where you make your case. You both have 30 ish uninterrupted seconds to state your case as to why your choice is the best sports film. Who wants to go first?

 

Carl  32:36

Lamar, you go first.

 

Lamar Woods  32:37

I’ll go first. So what I want to say is, mighty d2 Mighty Ducks is one of the greatest sports film of all time. And the reason is, it has everything you need from a sports film. It has wins, it has losses. It has this perfect arc of a team like, you know, you see the team like the bad news bears, element of like. These are scrappy kids, you know, from different backgrounds, and they all have to work together to create a goal to win the US Olympic championship. And it sounds very similar to our current state of our country, where our country is a bunch of people from different backgrounds, and we have to work together to make this country a beautiful place. And there’s a scene in the movie where everybody they’re down bad, you know, they’re down bad. They’re gonna lose this game against the Iceland, and they’re in the in the locker room, and everyone starts calling out what their name is and where they from. And it’s like this moment where it didn’t matter who you are, didn’t matter where you’re from. It didn’t matter how you play it matter that you’re together in your fight together. So that’s an a message that I think I could run with, and a message that a good sports movie should have also, you got so many stars in this movie, Kenan Thompson, Joshua Jackson, still popping. Never fell off. I don’t know where Emilio is, but I’m sure he’s around. And then the last thing I’ll say is the knuckle puck the coolest thing in the world, like the coolest, whatever it is. I don’t know if it exists in really, in hockey for real, but that shot of Kenan Thompson doing the knuckle puck and watching it flip like that, I think this movie is hands down, one of the greatest movies. Even if you don’t like hockey, let’s say you are partial to Space Jam because of the basketball. This movie also has basketball in it. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar in this movie. Yeah so I think whatever y’all, whatever y’all looking for, this movie has, it has ice cream. It has everything. It’s a great movie. It’s just a joy to watch. Yeah,  that’s what I gotta say, and I stick it to it.

 

Aminatou Sow  34:46

Okay, Carl, can you beat that?

 

Carl  34:49

I think I can, with one word, nostalgia. Remember the days of your remember the 90s. Joan London was on Good Morning America. America. OJ Simpson was being chased down the highway in a white Bronco. We were all on the search for Jon Benet Ramsey’s killer. It was so much craziness going on. I don’t know why I included Joan London in there. She wasn’t a part of those two other things, but we got this movie. We got to step outside of reality for a second and watch our heroes, our heroes, these superheroes, these athletes are our real superheroes. It brings out that inner child that we all have. If you were around my age, you grew up as a child in the 90s and then a teen in the 2000s and wrinkly ass adult in the 2000 10s, you remember this movie fondly, and you look back on it, and you it takes you back to a time of transformation, and that’s what this movie is about. It’s about transforming. It’s about overcoming. It don’t matter how big, how strong, how intimidating, how animated they are, you can win as long as you keep your head to the sky.

 

Aminatou Sow  36:03

I’m having a really hard time. I’ll tell you why, and it’s why I have to take notes about your nostalgia argument. Because Lamar, like you, said the thing about how it’s America at its best, you know, it’s like calling out, you know, like people from different places and cooperation and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Yeah, that sounds like, you know, like, that sounds like Bill Clinton’s America that fully like, that’s the thing that they told us. But I gotta say that to me, America is like, the it’s like, so weird. It is like cartoon characters playing basketball against, like, our best players we’ve ever had. So I, you know, I love d2 it’s, it is, like, truly one of my favorite movies. But I gotta give it to Space Jam. I’m sorry. Like, I’m like, sometimes I just want garbage, and like, the garbage gonna win. You know, wow. Listen, this movie is like, barely feature length. Okay, it’s like 80 minutes. That’s it’s like, nuts. They like, allowed it to be made on so many on so many levels. But the nostalgia really, really, really gets to me. I think that it also is the best of like, what has become, like, very gross consumerist, like, it’s like, today we do too much of it. But I was like, in 1996 they struck the exact perfect balance of like, what would become our, like, disgusting culture today. And it’s just fun. It’s just fun. And I gotta say, like, Carl, that it’s like, you got me with Porky Pig. That’s Porky Pig. I you know, like, deep love for Porky Peck so Lamar, I’m sorry.

 

Lamar Woods  37:42

That’s That’s all, folks, it’s okay.

 

Carl  37:47

I used to think that I could not come.

 

Lamar Woods  37:55

On, everybody, producers.

 

Aminatou Sow  37:59

We don’t have the rights to that. Please stop singing. Thank you both so much. This was so fun. I hope that it was fun for you too.

 

Carl  38:07

Thank you so much. for having absolutely fun.

 

Lamar Woods  38:09

Thank you so much for having us.

 

Aminatou Sow  38:15

Thanks to Carl Tart and Lamar Woods for coming on the show, and thanks to all of you for listening. If you have a debate worthy pop culture opinion you’d like to hear on the show, please let us know in the review section. And if you want to hear more of Carl and Lamar, check out Carl’s podcast, The Flagrant Ones on Patreon and Lamar Woods album, Highly Ssensitive Person.

 

Aminatou Sow  38:35

There’s more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium. Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content, like the amazing story of how Carl and Lamar met each other. It involves a wax museum, that’s all I’m gonna say. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts.

 

Aminatou Sow  38:48

Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC. I’m Aminatou Sow the show is produced by me, Joanna Solotaroff, Kryssy Pease, Lamar Wood and Dani Matias. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our SVP of weekly content is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.