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Which version of The Office is better: UK or US? Comedian, actor, and writer Liam Williams takes on radio and podcast host Julia Cunningham in today’s debate. Liam points out that The Office UK reinvented sitcom comedies and is the original series, making the US version inherently derivative. Julia counters that the US version improved upon the original, creating a show that remains incredibly popular even though it’s been off the air for over a decade. Which version of The Office will Ronald Young Jr. rule is the superior franchise?

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Speaker 1, Julia Cunningham, Ronald young Jr., Liam Williams

Ronald young Jr.  00:00

Michael Scott, Dwight, Pam Beasley, Kelly Kapoor, Jim Halpert, The Office is a beloved American comedy that is still finding its way to the hearts of new viewers, even in 2025 but for non American listeners who love The Office, I’m sure you expected to hear names like David Brent, Tim Canterbury, Gareth Keenan and […] they never worked at Dunder Mifflin, but rather across the pond in the UK, at Wurm Hogg Paper merchants. These are, of course, characters from the UK edition of The Office, the original show that the US version is based on. It ran a lot shorter, at two series and 14 episodes, versus the nine seasons and 201 episodes of its American counterpart. But it has a huge following and is beloved for its groundbreaking format change to the standard sitcom. But which show is better? Do office super fans prefer the dry wit of the Brits or the in your face, sometimes slapstick of the Americans, The Office UK or The Office US, we decide once and for all right here And right now at Pop Culture Debate Club.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:22

Welcome back to Pop Culture Debate Club. I’m your host, Ronald Young Jr, let’s meet our panelists for the day. Representing the UK version of the office is comedian, actor and creator of the BBC series Ladhood. Be sure to check out his debut novel, homes and experiences. Hello and welcome to Liam Williams.

 

Liam Williams  01:40

Hello, thanks for having me.

 

Ronald young Jr.  01:42

Glad you’re all the way across the pond. Also joining us, representing the US version of The Office, is award winning radio and television host and host of the Julia Cunningham show on Sirius XM Radio. Andy, let’s welcome Julia Cunningham.

 

Julia Cunningham  01:57

Woohoo, thanks for having me. Liam, you’re going down. No, I’m just kidding. Yes, representing the US, I’m here.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:06

Julia, how would you say? What would you say your argument style is?

 

Julia Cunningham  02:09

Well,  I’m a nerd. So I like to have a lot of facts, and I like to have a lot of sort of white man confidence as a woman who likes to kind of come in strong out the gate. And I also try to make the other person feel bad about their decision in defending something. I don’t know if I can necessarily do that in this particular case, but I’m gonna try and chisel away at Liam, ultimately.

 

Ronald young Jr.  02:32

I love it. Liam, how do you feel about being chiseled away at? Do you have an argument style that you think is a good a good pairing for Julia’s?

 

Liam Williams  02:41

I think I’ll crumble like chalk, but, yeah, I think I’m a probably very easy medium for the sculptor to work with. I’m a nerd, something of a nerd as well, but the kind of British version. So some facts, but mainly rely on sarcasm.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:00

Wow, all right. Well, we are going to get into it. Julia Liam, are y’all ready to fight?

 

Julia Cunningham  03:08

Oh, yeah, sure.

 

Liam Williams  03:10

Sure.

 

Ronald young Jr.  03:11

Liam, give me your opening argument. The Office UK is the better version of the office.

 

Liam Williams  03:16

Well, The Office UK is the blueprint you wouldn’t have the office us without the without The Office UK, you know it’s it’s inherently derivative. It’s inherently subservient to the master form, The Office UK, the template, which needed only two series, as we say here, two seasons, six episodes to reinvent sitcom comedy before The Office UK came along, sitcoms were formulaic. They relied on laughter tracks. They were often devoid of drama, depth, pathos, emotion. And The Office UK achieved all these things and normalized them for global sitcom within the space of 12 episodes, the office us is a brilliant thing. I’ve, as I’ve said, I’ve enjoyed lots of episodes of it. But it’s not revolutionary in the way The Office UK is. It’s, in a way, just cashing in, like the office Australia and The Office, I don’t know wherever else they’ve made the office. So I believe in lots of territories, as we say in television. But that, to me, is what the office us is, you know, it’s a very good format sale. You know, it’s not a thing of brilliance in its own right.

 

Julia Cunningham  04:40

Sorry, I was gonna just take right over Ronald.

 

Ronald young Jr.  04:42

Well, you you get an opening argument before you get into bigger but I can, he definitely threw, definitely, kind of went straight into US office, rather than positing the UK office. So if you want to rebut, that’s on you.

 

Julia Cunningham  04:55

Well, my sort of opening argument, which I understand what Liam is saying. There, that’s the thing is, yes, it came first. There’s something important about that. But what I kind of equate The Office versus the office, the US edition, is I look at something like hallelujah by Leonard Cohen. Let’s equate that to the UK version of The Office. It’s a perfect song. It’s beautiful. There’s reverence towards Leonard Cohen. It’s a song that has been impactful for generation after generation. There is 100 million iterations of that have been done by various artists. But the spine of that song is what’s so good about it, because it is adaptable, that you can take it and move it forward. That’s what Jeff Buckley’s version, ie, the US version of The Office, has done. They saw what the layered boundaries of what had been created by Stephen Merchant And Ricky Gervais, which is sort of a basic premise, in many ways, the mundane, everyday life of this paper company. And they expanded upon that in a way that brought a new tone of melody and development and key change and things that that yes simplified and reverence towards Leonard Cohen, but a beautiful push forward to a thing that hadn’t been done before. They were able to take something that was seemingly yes, good, and make it better, because the spine was there, and there’s something so moving about the fact that they have made it an impactful show to the point where just in 2022 is the most streamed show, even though it had been off the air for nearly a decade. I think many people sort of have reverence towards the original UK office, but as you said, it’s a two season watch where this is on. You can dive in at any moment and have a longevity run of whether you’re just a I’m a Michael Scott fan. I’m Ed Helms Andy as the manager of The Office, it gives it this sort of space to give you that specific thing that you love about it, you get to pinpoint your moments. I just re binged all the UK office just as like a refresher, because I hadn’t watched it in years, because I was like, I’ve done that, whereas the US office, I watch over and over and over, and it’s become a fabric of daily lives for us, where, while we’re cooking, an episode of The Office is on, because it’s that calming thing. There’s a snobbery to the British version, which, at the time, I think is hilarious and makes it work. That’s what makes that show special. But as I said earlier, you can tell that by the end, even Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant cared about those characters and gave them a lighter edge by the end, because I think it was going to adapt to something already before they ended it, which is basically what the US office became. So it’s better.

 

Ronald young Jr.  07:49

Liam, talk to me. I’ve never had anyone, but that’s just it’s better.

 

Julia Cunningham  07:57

It’s better.

 

Ronald young Jr.  07:58

Liam, talk to me about impact. Do you think that Julia is talking about the impact of the American office on her? Do you think any of that has to do with the fact that she can relate more to us characters, perhaps, as opposed to not feeling as relatable to UK characters? Do you think that plays into that? Or do you think there’s truth to what she’s saying about the impact being greater universally for the American office versus the UK office.

 

Liam Williams  08:22

Well, I experienced the same thing in inverse. You could almost just swap the swap the nouns around for me and and I could say the same thing, which is that I was not averse to having a little dip back into the US office, but it didn’t move me. I didn’t feel a great deal of personal impact in the way that I watched the UK office. I re watch it maybe once a year, once every two years, and I’ll kind of sit down and put it on and think, Am I really going to do this again? Do I you know, I’ve watched this 50 times, and then I’m hooked. I’m hooked. I’m absorbed. It’s so perfect. So there’s clearly a parochialism, perhaps, I hope we could both confess to that, that we have our, you know, our subjective familiarity biasing us somewhat. But the originator, the UK office as originator, because it’s like the greatest moment in in the evolution of mammals is when the primordial fish kind of leaps out of the sea. You know, anything that comes after thatis a repetition, a variation on a theme. But that paradigm shift from the world of sitcom before the office to after. I think it’s really, I think it’s a fault line in in comedic history that, for me, comes down to the laughter track. Sitcoms were so reliant on the laughter track, not necessarily. I’ve heard this theory from the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek, which I’m sure this won’t even be the most pretentious thing I say on this this podcast. That gig says that the sitcom laughter track is the thing that is a great example of how ideology functions in modern society, where we’re all so cynical and tired that we don’t really feel or believe anything sincerely anymore, and we need our culture to do it on our behalf. And we watch sitcoms and we hear the laughter track not to tell us where to laugh, but to feel as if we have laughed ourselves for half an hour. And as modern viewers, we we know, you know, we’re better than that. We’re smarter than that. We can’t allow a sound effect to perform our amusement for us anymore. We need something deeper, subtler, and the office UK replaces the entire history of the laughter track, the entire tradition of the sitcom laughter track with Martin Freeman’s face. Tim’s face becomes the device which connects the viewer to the humor and makes the viewer feel like they are smarter than the characters, like they have this gifted privilege vantage point on the on the comedy that they’re they’re watching, and that becomes the norm in all sitcom from them, from you know, the vast majority of sitcoms, you get Modern Family and parks and recreation, and suddenly this thing of the viewer feeling like a slightly superior, privileged fly on the wall amongst these crazy characters is The template for all sick on from then on, and that is achieved by the UK office. The paradigm shift is done on the UK show.

 

Ronald young Jr.  11:28

Julia, do you think that first is important in terms of better?

 

Julia Cunningham  11:34

Well, I mean, I think first is obviously always going to be important, but also, like, what is what is it that makes it better? You know, I think in many ways, like you’re setting the bar to a level that you know is going to be surpassed. That’s just what happens. You can also argue it down to pop music, like, I’ll use, I keep using music examples, but that’s what’s coming to mind, is, you know, like a Madonna, like she set a standard in pop, but she’s never going to be able to replicate that wave, because she started at first. You know, all these other pop stars that are learning from her are just going to do it better, inherently, because they’re taking that mold. It’s what they’re listening to, it’s what they’re responding to. And I think that’s sort of similar to The Office where, you know, I like to go out as, like, our Dwight, like, I love that the creators saw that there was something inherently that there’s more the poking fun at that character within the UK office, that idea of like, oh, all of us who think that’s the nerd in the office, but in our US version, it’s like, yes, he’s the nerd. But you know what else he Fox? Oh my gosh, wait can I say that? Sorry, he like, he Fox, like he is like he does not see himself as in on the joke. Like he is a better character, in a way, because we inherently see that he is sort of the butt of the joke. He puts that tension between him and Jim and the other members being the suck up to our Michael Scott or the David Brent, but also you inherently sort of don’t make fun of him, because he has a swagger to him that allows it to be less like we’re constantly punching down. And I think that’s which will probably get into a larger thing is my much larger issue with Ricky Gervais, and I think his sense of humor is so punching down that I can’t I just don’t emotionally connect to it in way. I watch the UK office. I think it’s funny, but I don’t feel emotionally connected to anyone. You’re right. Tim gives us that sense of the looks to the camera and the understanding of what is going on there, but he’s the only one, because even our I think the dawn character, in a way, is very eye Rolly, even though I think they have this really wonderful will they won’t they, sort of thing happening, that office flirtation that feels very real, the Jim and Pam just expands upon that where you’re in a small town, you’re whatever else, it feels so much more relatable than we’re making fun of it, in a way, which is, I think, my major issue between the two.

 

Ronald young Jr.  14:02

We’ll be back with more Pop Culture Debate Club after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  14:13

Liam, you talked about, uh, like in both of you have kind of talked on the aspects that kind of moved you about either one of these shows. And we’ll get into the David Brent versus the Michael Scott of it all. But before we get there, I just want if you could tell me parts of the UK office that moved Julian and Julie. I’ll come back to about the US office. But what aspects of the UK office did you feel most moving to you?

 

Liam Williams  14:37

Well, it’s been a delight to re watch it this week, actually. Yeah, good excuse to do so. And I was kind of tuning into that, that aspect of it, because I thought you might ask me about this. And, you know, I hate to say it’s everything, but it’s everything. It’s, you know, from the opening titles, the way those shots are arranged, the cash. Remove just the slow pan with a slight, a slight tilt on the shot that’s timed so well with the strings of the handbags and the glad rags by the faces. I think it moves me, maybe again. It’s just that familiarity. It takes me back to a particular time in my life. But I think it always moves me in that way. There was always something so elegiac about it. You know, it’s set in this kind of new town in the UK built around roundabouts. And it kind of really speaks to the the grimness of a lot of of the UK landscape, the sense that beyond the M 25 in London, not much care or thought or beauty or attention has been given to the way things really look and feel, the degradation of a society that used to be more held together by a social contract, you know, by social democracy, where everything’s Just been farmed out to the private sector. Everybody’s got jobs in these grim offices. There’s no real sense of a central identity or vision for where this country is going. And what you’re left with are these towns around roundabouts, gray post war, crumbling, brutalist buildings, cheap office blocks with, you know, just just gray facades and and and dirty windows and inside everything’s gray as well. And that felt so redolent of the country that I was growing up into. And yet, here were these characters with so much determination to them all in their own mad, silly way, but they felt so real, so grounded, so human in their flaws and their hopes and their dreams, all of them trying to transcend something which has always been one of the great qualities of British sitcom, Fauci towers, Alan Partridge, Black Adder again. You know, it’s always about these, these characters trapped by the British class system, aspiring for progress, but held down by the social conditions around them and their own, their own faults, David Brent being one of the greatest examples of that. And I think the thing that moves me most, in terms of the emotion of it, is Tim as a character. I mean, yeah, I thought it was interesting what Julia said about a certain there’s a certain cruelty, there’s a certain punching down. Maybe we can come back to unpack a bit more the kind of political connotations of of all of that, because I think it does Herald what happens in the UK with Brexit, in a way that I think is there’s something more interesting about what the office UK is saying about the political direction of the country than what the office us is saying, which, for me, kind of, you know, has this thing that, like Hollywood’s television comedy, has this kind of liberal complacency to it, whereas the office UK seems a bit more attuned to a sense of political crisis underway. But the Tim character, maybe that’s the snobbishness that Julia speaks about. Is kind of there that he kind of He’s superior. He’s intellectually superior to everybody. But even the episode I watched last night, the quiz show episode, we see him kind of decide that he’s going to stay, he’s going to stick around. He kind of sells out on his dream a little bit. And we know that’s motivated by wanting to be with Dawn. We can feel also that it’s that fear of success, you know, it’s that fear of trying something. And in that Tim character, I think there’s just so much about being a modern human, with wanting to belong somewhere, wanting to feel safe, wanting to find love and all of that, but also feeling a bit lost, feeling empty, and aspiring for something more. And I think it was just great that that could be in a in a comedy show. You know, I thought it was like, brilliantly ambitious.

 

Ronald young Jr.  18:52

What about you, Julia, what moved you about the US office?

 

Julia Cunningham  18:55

It’s funny, because my takeaway was something similar, I just think, in a different way, where we’re looking at, you know, the stifling nature of a traditional nine to five in a way that has, I think, especially here in the US, and I’m sure globally, where young people are not putting on their, I’m sure, their resumes and other things that they want to go and work at the paper company or the local job or whatever else. It’s like, I wouldn’t be able to unbox on YouTube and make money from that. That’s like the aspiration, but these sort of traditional nine to fives that are reliable but not quite demanding. You know, we see everything within that that office as that time to kind of whether it’s like slightly slacking off or like Jim, who we see often barely working because he says, You know, I’ve been just staring at Dwight all day, like those sort of jobs seem far and in between, because that company, in reality, would have been bought out. It would have been shoved out, most likely by staples, which is, you know, a competitor of theirs that they see, you know, like a local paper company just wouldn’t survive. And you just think of it as this weird. Least kind of like sad moment in time that we’re just not having as much of these, like localized, hyper, specific businesses, that when you look at it, it’s like leaning into that burnout generation, like no one is leaving that nine to five job feeling like at the end of the day I can’t afford my condo or whatever else. It’s like this suspended belief of like, everything is okay at this specific time. And it’s funny that Liam says, like, yes, it like his version in the UK is like leaning so politically, we’re not seeing any rise of Maga or the bros or any of that, which I think is what makes it so digestible, because in a weird way, like, yes, there’s something so brilliant about comedies that can go and and hit a harder topic. But I think at this point, post pandemic, post things where it’s like, I just love that I can sit there and see this nine to five as if it’s this special place that was up on a pedestal at one point in our lives, where it was normal for people to have jobs that was being a paper salesman. I’m like, does that even exist in the year 2025, I can’t even tell you, and I’ve never wondered or thought about it, because that’s not why and how I watch the office. I think it’s maybe just a completely different device of what we see as humor and what we see as comfort.

 

Ronald young Jr.  21:17

Julia, I’m gonna come back to you like you mentioned that you thought that Ricky Gervais is David Brent was a little more mean spirited and punching down. Talk to me about the Michael Scott of it all. What differences do you see between Michael Scott and David Brent? And how are those differences? How do they impact you in viewing the US version of the office?

 

Julia Cunningham  21:37

Well, I’ll be so curious, like Liam’s take on this also, but like in general, I’ve just struggled with the Ricky Gervais of it, like I’m probably in the minority when it comes to being able to watch back that show and not think, in my mind, this is a man who did a Netflix special and he does punching down jokes that he uses and politicizes what is a woman, what is a man, and even says, you know, I’m just doing it for the sake of humor. And to me, that’s not funny. I don’t find it to be a slightly funny thing. And I kind of, in a way, and I’ll admit, like, I can’t take that out of my mind when I was doing this re watch of just like that lingers so largely in my mind while I was watching the show. And as much as it’s, you know, you’re some people argue like, separate the man from the art whatever. It’s too inherent now, where I couldn’t and watching sort of like the harshness of David Brent felt so inherently more mean to me this time. I don’t remember watching it that way. Previously, I thought the David Brent character was interesting. I thought what he did as a setup was was, again, what Liam said, like a really a start to something new in comedy. But this re watch that I was doing felt so off putting to me this time, just having in the back of my mind like what Ricky Gervais does as his sense of humor in his own sort of comedy, whereas the Michael Scott character, to me, even though he is a pick me girl and is dramatic and everything else within his character, you know, at the end of the day, he’s a good guy, and he’s also good at his job, surprisingly, when it comes to being a salesman, whether his managerial skills, you know, whatever, but they constantly bring up the fact that their their office over produces, that their office is never going to get shut down, that they succeed. He has these dreams and aspirations, even though they’re unhinged. And it just comes off as, like, I guess again, sort of a more light hearted, like, I don’t have to watch and think, God, does Michael Scott hate trans people? No, I know he doesn’t hate trans people, because I can just tell based on the sense of humor within the show. And that’s a huge distinction for me, where I honestly can’t separate those two items, and so it does make it for a different watch. Personally.

 

Ronald young Jr.  23:45

Liam, talk to me about the differences between David Brent and Michael Scott for you.

 

Liam Williams  23:51

Well, I thought Julia’s point was really interesting there, and that gives me a good way into talking about David Brent, because I suppose I experience Him the other way around. Once again, it’s, you know, it’s the perspective difference makes all the difference because I, you know, I’ve discovered Ricky Gervais through the office, and kind of fell in love with David Brent. And then over time, I’ve seen that love diminish steadily with every new piece of output that Ricky Gervais comes up with, that’s for sure, but that I find absolutely fascinating in itself, because Julia, you say, you know that actually watching David Brent again in light of the the you know, fairly often fairly hateful, or at least kind of artless, lazy, stereotype baiting comedy that Ricky Gervais has become more known for, that you see a lot of similarity, almost kind of affinity between the two characters I see, I actually see something really different, which is like in the in the Brent. Character. There’s, it’s like a sending up of that, you know, it’s like this portrayal of a very desperate, insecure man who just wants to be liked, and he’s kind of lashing out in all directions, has no stable core of identity, or so it seems. But it’s so real to me, whereas, you know, Steve Carell is hilarious of course, Steve Carell is one of the most talented comic actors of all time, but I think it’s a much bigger performance. I was watching the dinner party episode today, and I find him shrill like I know that’s the point. I know he’s meant to be this sort of unbearably energetic and desperate man, but it’s like, it’s like sherbert or something, you know, it’s like sweets. It’s like candy. It’s like it’s extremely funny to just watch a few minutes of it, but it really tires me out. I actually think the Brent character, with its depths of of tragedy and narcissism, masking, presumably, some kind of trauma and all of this. Maybe I’m overthinking it. I often overthink things. That’s what we do here. Yeah. Oh, good, okay, good. I’ll carry on. There’s so much more richness and depth and psychological texture, whereas with Michael Scott. I mean, he makes me laugh consistently every time I watch it, but I don’t think it’s as interesting a character or as interesting a performance.

 

Ronald young Jr.  26:29

Oh man, Julia.

 

Julia Cunningham  26:33

Well, no, I understand what he means. Like there is a sort of over the top quality, but that’s the thing where you say, you know, Michael Scott, played by the great Steve Carell. I feel the same way. Where you say surrounding David Brent, where it’s like, I think if it was anybody else, and we see it in different forms, you know, Ed Helms taking over as the office manager, where, where that performance, to me, is shrill, and I’m always like, ugh, the Andy years. You know what I mean. There are elements of that. But Michael Scott, played by Steve Carell, I think gives, gives that gentleness. Actually, I find it funny that you find him shrill, whereas I think there’s sort of that element of of the over performance to be underperforming in a weird way, where he’s like doing so much to make you know that there’s yeah something deeper down, or yeah the insecurity, or, as I said, the pick me girl energy that feels so relatable and likable. I think there’s someone like that in my office. There’s someone like that possibly, I don’t know if you work in an office environment. Liam an office of one perhaps, I’m not sure, but you know, there’s elements where it just feels so much more relatable and humanized, because there’s still a managerial quality or a boss where there’s still reverence to that person that comes off, I think, so much more realistic, weirdly in the US office than the UK office, which feels to me weirdly over the top.

 

Ronald young Jr.  27:56

We’ll be back with more PCDC after this break.

 

Ronald young Jr.  28:07

I love this discussion. I understand where both y’all are coming from, on both sides, both being like, UK citizen, US citizen and like, why you feel the way you feel, and why they’re so diametrically kind of opposed to each other. But we can’t talk forever, and I have to issue a ruling at some point. So let’s get to closing arguments. We’ll start with you, Liam, why don’t you close us out the UK office is better than the US office.

 

Liam Williams  28:34

Well, it’s been a very spirited and enjoyable discussion, and yeah, I’ve taken a lot from from what Julius said, but it hasn’t ultimately moved me from my my principal positions, which is that the Office UK sets the template. It not only sets the template for a particular sitcom, but sets the template for sitcom in general, globally. It ushers in a new era of sitcom, which itself is reflective of a sea change in cultural attitudes, where a kind of cynicism and a growing, I guess, awareness amongst the viewing public demanded something different. It demanded a new approach to mainstream sitcom where the laughter tracks and the studio sets and the bright colors and all those formulas were too tired. You know, the culture needed something new, and the office UK invented it. And I think that what the office US did with with that template is, is fun, it’s warm, it’s silly, but it it kind of waters down the brilliance, the the inventive, the emotive, the almost philosophical, poetic qualities of the UK office that was so. Sharply and effectively distilled into 12 short episodes. And it kind of mass produces them. It kind of, you know, riffs on on those fundaments for far too long, in my opinion, or long enough. But that, as Julia said earlier in the discussion, you know, it’s like background music. You know, it’s something you have on in the background, and it’s warm and pleasant and all the rest of it. But as I think, for me, the office UK demands attention. You know, it’s a piece of almost cinema, which, in the end, I can’t say of the US office in a way that the US office feels like yet another example of a kind of Hollywood liberal escapism from so I have to stick to my position that the UK office is superior.

 

Ronald young Jr.  30:46

Julia Cunningham, closing argument.

 

Julia Cunningham  30:48

I’m same. I’m standing my ground on this one. I do believe, you know, Liam brings up great and excellent points about where this show stands within our culture, as the first and setting the imprint and changing, as you said, I think earlier you said there’s like 10 iterations of it, or something like that. And obviously brought in the mockumentary style of of of sitcom to us in various ways. But I also think still in the US, The Office version is almost considered a cult classic, like I don’t think if you asked if I went up to a 14 year old, 15 year old, even 20 year old on the street, and said, Oh, did you know that the office actually came from a British version. It hasn’t made its way to us here in the US, even though it’s an established, important series, because it was the first, I think the US just took that idea and ran and it expanded upon it and gave breath to the various characters within that show. I feel like in many ways, this show is probably studied in television film school in the sense that there’s this perfect writing of 22 episodes that’s able to dig deep into major characters, story lines for Michael Scott and for Jim and for Pam and for Dwight and for Angela and for Toby and the amount of wordsmith that they use within those 22 minutes is just something that I marvel at every time I watch it. So I’m sticking with my decision that the US version is perfect. I love it. Are there some issues in it? Maybe I don’t care. I love Jeff Buckley. And so I’m saying Hallelujah, the Jeff Buckley version, The Office, the US version. That’s what I feel.

 

Ronald young Jr.  32:31

All right, are you all ready for my ruling?

 

Liam Williams  32:34

Yes.

 

Julia Cunningham  32:34

Yes.

 

Ronald young Jr.  32:35

Okay, so typically, every argument starts when we do this on pop culture debate club. It’s 111, meaning both of you all have one side, and I’m the neutral opinion on one. And unfortunately for this one, it actually started two-one Liam, because I don’t know if even by the by team here at PCDC, does The Office is my favorite show. It is my favorite show. The US office is number one above all the dramas, all of that, but.

 

Julia Cunningham  33:02

I would like to go to the appeals court. Oh, no, okay come on.

 

Ronald young Jr.  33:06

But that being said, with it being my favorite shot, was open minded and ready for discussion about the UK office, that would convince me that it’s actually better. And I think one of the things you mentioned was that it came first, that it was that, it came first, that it sets the tone, which is true. It does revolutionize television in that way, which continues on. But I think the Hallelujah argument kind of debunks that a little bit, because we talk about, we talk about the difference of those songs. But while you were talking, Julia, I remember thinking about, and I will always love you, Dolly Parton versus Whitney Houston. We don’t talk about the Dolly Parton version. We talk about the Whitney Houston version, and Dolly Parton has been on record as saying that is Whitney song. There’s also Chuck Liddell, who was a UFC fighter who at the time, knockout after knockout. We don’t talk about Chuck Liddell. We talk about Jon Jones, who revolutionized whatever it was that Chuck Liddell was doing, because things are indeed supposed to get better and improve, no matter what we pay homage to the things that were first. The second part is that there are plenty of other British base based shows that I really could get into, chewing gum, misfits, peep show, extras, Luther like, there’s like the the BBC channel, one all the other networks over there, they put out good content. Dead set, one of my favorite shows of all time. They just put out great content over there. The my first introduction, and I think this was probably a pothole for you, Liam, was that you mentioned the dinner party episode. The Dinner Party episode of The Office does so much work in culminating events over several times. It is solidifying the relationship between Pam and Jim. It is talking about the breakup between Dwight and Angela, and it is also talking about the breaking apart of the relationship between Michael and Blake, thank you between Michael and Jan, which is all comes to a culmination at this dinner party episode. So if you find him shrill in that episode that. Actually not. I wouldn’t consider that to be unintentional, because you’re getting him at his loudest, because he’s in such anxiety and stress which is built up over the course of all these other ones, including the deposition episode, which happened to before them, which is why again. I don’t know if my team knew how much I loved The Office, but I had all this information. So when you said it, I’m like, well, that’s actually because of these ones before. And my only quibble is that when I turn on the office, the things about Ricky, about David Brent versus Michael Scott, stand out to me. David Brent comes off as mean to me, and maybe that is my American sensibility, that he comes off as mean. And knowing the information about Ricky Gervais only makes it harder, because when I re watch Steve Carell as Michael Scott, he is racist, he is misogynist, he is kind of dim witted and hurtful to people at times, but he also changes and grows over time and becomes deeply connected to his staff and the people in his office. And you can count on him to show up for people, like when he shows up for PAM and all that. So he shows a person who is trying and willing to change, which I think is is good, because we can actually hold space for that celebration. So with all of that in mind, Liam, I am so sorry, because it never happens. I normally never come in being like, well, this will see how this goes. But I love The Office, and I feel like, maybe it is the difference. Maybe this is a bit of a Revolutionary War, if you will, in terms of like we are entrenched in our positions on this. But personally, I believe, and I agree with Julia, that the US version of The Office is the better version of the office, although I appreciate all the contributions that the UK office makes the television, and it does revolutionize television in a way we don’t go back to where we were, like, laugh tracks are for CBS. They are not for any new they’re not for any of the new television. So I will 100% concede that point to you. So Julia, you with this one today.

 

Julia Cunningham  36:52

Yes, although, Liam, you brought up great points that I was like, I am gonna re watch it again and think about the political ramifications that are coming. Because I really had not thought about that. And that and that was a great point.

 

Ronald young Jr.  37:03

I also want to point out, Liam, that you were talking about the working class town built around roundabouts where I’m, like, the the translation into Scranton, Pennsylvania being kind of this, like podunk town is, like, it was, it was perfect, and in those changes and through our American lens. So you did bring up great points. You just didn’t convince me. Unfortunately, I’m an office super fan. I’m getting, I’m gearing up for my re watch right now with the super fan episodes, where you get all of this extra content about all of the other people that work at The Office. So I apologize, Liam.

 

Julia Cunningham  37:33

Wow, I was calling for an appeal, but, Liam, you might have to go for that appeal, because I won.

 

Julia Cunningham  37:38

I know, I think I’m convinced by your passion, not to, not to change my mind, but just in the, in the supremacy of cultural passion, that’s the thing that that matters most. You know, the things we love, if we love them, that’s great. We don’t need to I don’t feel I need to win. I feel I’ve won anyway, just by witnessing your appreciation of your of your office as you see it. And I love my office, but I’ve got a lot out of the conversation, and I’ll probably go back and, you know, really, really dig into the to The Office too, as I see it, you know.

 

Ronald young Jr.  38:20

Start with series two, start with Season Two better, and then add season one at the end. It makes it even better. I think a lot of my opinions in the meantime, Liam, where can people find you if they’re looking?

 

Speaker 1  38:31

That’s a really good question, actually. I mean, I’m often popping up on the television in the UK. I guess I have a Twitter X, as we call it now. Yeah, Elon Musk’s hate platform is probably the best place to find me. I’m not very active on the socials, but yeah, I have a Twitter account which is funny Lad five. Funny lad five, or Google my name if you, if you’re desperate.

 

Julia Cunningham  38:57

Julia working folks, find you if they’re looking I’m on the other evil platform, Instagram. You can find me @JuliaCunningham across social media, I guess, yeah, but I’m a host at Sirius XM. So you can find me.  DJ music and I host a pop culture show. So you can find me there the Julia Cunningham show, noon, Eastern, or excuse me, 3pm Eastern, noon, Pacific on channel 102, radio Andy on Sirius XM.

 

Ronald young Jr.  39:21

Amazing, thank you both so much for being on.

 

Julia Cunningham  39:24

Thank you for having me.

 

Ronald young Jr.  39:25

Thanks again to Liam Williams and Julia Cunningham. There’s more Pop Culture Debate Club with Lemonada Premium.Subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like Liam and Julia explaining to me the difference between British and American humor. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Pop Culture Debate Club is a production of Lemonada and the BBC.   It’s produced by Jamela Zarha Williams, Kryssy Pease,  Dani Matias and me, Ronald young Jr. Our mix is by Noah Smith. Rachel Neel is VP of new content. Our Senior Vice President of weekly content  and production is Steve Nelson. Commissioning editor for the BBC is Rhian Roberts. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.   Follow Pop Culture Debate Club, wherever you get your podcasts.

 

Liam Williams  39:25

Thank you.