Tell Me What to Do

The Other Woman

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As promised, it’s the second episode about cheating, and this week, Jaime focuses on the other woman. She calls up a listener who was the other woman, just got contacted again by the guy, and doesn’t know what to do. Plus: a listener who thinks the best way to be in a casual relationship is to be the other woman and someone who wonders how smart women end up becoming the other woman.

FYI: Tell Me What To Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

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[00:35] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Hello, friends. You are listening to Tell Me What To Do. I am your host, Jaime Primak Sullivan. This is part two of the sort of cheating duo of podcasts that we have decided to do. The first one being you were cheated on now, wife. And this one is you are the cheat. You are like the other woman. Poor man. Now what? And I think it’s really fascinating because so many people take a cold, hard stance. Like, I would never cheat. I would never be the other woman. OK, sure you would. What if he has tattoos and gray sweatpants? You might. But I think we’re gonna have a really, really honest conversation. Some people are going to feel that I am glorifying being the other woman. Let me make it crystal clear to you now: I am not. Being the other woman is — if marriage is a rollercoaster, being the other woman is like that, you know, that slingshot ride where it catapults you like up to the heavens and then you just fuckin spin and I don’t even know what happens to you. It’s like gravity disappears and weightlessness and you’re sure you’re going to fall out and die, but then you don’t. It feels good again. It’s intoxicating. You know, being the other woman is really like being intoxicated. You know, when it’s like super, super, super fun and you’re having the time of your life and you can’t imagine feeling that good, you’re in like the zone. And then suddenly you end up in a bed and the room is spinning and you have to put one foot on the floor to not laugh. That’s what it’s like to be the other woman. 


[03:10] Jaime Primak Sullivan: So we’re gonna get into all of that, but first, let’s talk about what is going on in my head this week. So I realized that I experienced a judgment at the soccer field. I know. I never judge. I am the least judgmental person. In fact, I was so surprised by the judgment that I actually checked myself in the moment and was like, are you fucking judging right now? Who the hell do you think you are? And actually felt guilty about it. Like, no. You don’t get to do that. Rein it in. But I felt it. So we’re at the soccer field. All the moms are talking. And this one mom says — I say, what are you making for dinner tonight? And she’s like, I don’t know, I have no idea. And her husband makes a comment like it’s been like that for three weeks. Now, I’m so upset with myself for feeling a judgment that, like, I don’t even know, I’m so annoyed. First let me say that it’s been like that for three weeks is the slogan for 2020. That’s how I feel. It’s like you haven’t showered. It’s been like that for three weeks. You haven’t had sex. It’s been like that. 


[04:47] Jaime Primak Sullivan: So I want to say first and foremost, that I understand that we are not in normal times. So you can’t really judge anybody. Everybody is doing the best they can. But separate from that, I felt judgment like, how do you have no job, and your kids are in school, and you don’t know what you’re making for dinner? You got a whole day. Did it not cross your mind? It’s not like it is new. Happens every night. We know it’s coming. That was what I thought for a second. And then I was like, oh, I’m disgusted with you. That’s when I knew, like, it was the last day of my period. I clearly need to get laid. I need a drink. I have not had a drink. I do much better with one drink a week, but I haven’t had a drink since Jersey. Not that I need to drink, but when I have one a week, it makes me feel fun and lively and accepting. Very sexy, and it also makes me believe I can sing anyway. I felt a twinge of judgment, so I’m really disappointed in myself, which means I need to look inward because I don’t really feel judgment often. So if I was feeling it there. Why, Jaime? Because you’re obnoxious. That’s why. I did see they announced that they’re doing another spin off or a reboot remake, whatever the fuck you call it, of Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Drama, a drama now, not a comedy. But I just have to say one thing, and I’m not a hater. I swear, it’s just inside baseball. You know, when you know too much about an industry in your life. Bullshit. Will Smith is all do you guys know how amazing it is that we got a two-season pick up? Like this is the biggest thing to happen into bra.


[06:50] Jaime Primak Sullivan: It’s literally the Fresh Prince of Bel Air reboot with Will Smith. You know what your agent said, well, they said he’s not doing it unless you give it a two-season pickup. And they went, OK. I mean, can we not act like you’re not in the top five biggest action stars in our universe? Of course, they gave you two seasons. I hate when, like, people try to make it seem like it’s — I get it. He wants to gas up his team. It’s a bunch of new creators and that’s dope. But can we call a spade a spade, please? Anyway, so we’re talking about the other woman being the other woman. Last week, we heard from listeners who had been cheated on and decided to stay. This week, we are hearing from the other women. Some of you sent in stories where despite the circumstances of how the relationship started, you did end up together. Others sent in stories about not even knowing they were the other woman until months or years into the relationship. I call bullshit on that, but OK. Some of you can’t stop being the other woman. It’s a compulsion, it’s a pattern is what it is. It’s insanity. So let’s break it down and then we can talk about all of it. 


[08:08] Jaime Primak Sullivan: The reason I wanted to make this a two-part topic is because I think in a lot of ways, being the other woman gets glorified. And I think people need to understand, A, how women get there and B, what it’s really like. Because it is not glory. It is excruciating at times. And no one wins. So I want to share a text message from a good friend who is currently the other woman. And I find this text message very interesting. She knows I’m taping this today, whatever it’s called, recording. And I said to her, I wish you could be on because I think we’d have such smart, honest conversation. And because she is the other woman and because she’s afraid of hurting other people, despite her actions, she didn’t want to come on. Which I totally get. But we went to college together and I love her very much. She says affairs are great life lessons. Not only do you learn about the psyche of lying and cheating, but you learn about yourself and how you react to those qualities, enable them, cater to them and even encourage them. We all have an insecure side. And sometimes being lied to is a good thing for our superficial, insecure needs. Certainly damaging subconsciously, but it’s still nice to hear what you want to hear on some level. How beautiful you are, how amazing you taste. How amazing you feel, etc. OK, buddy. No one is that damn good, myself included. But tell me I am because I like the way it sounds. The difference between when your actual husband cheats on you and lies, it’s a betrayal on a very fundamental level. Pride and ego get damaged on top of it. It’s embarrassing when you are the affair. You understand that you are just a woman a married man is cheating with. So your level of attachment is much less. You have a natural disconnect from your affair. Because even if you don’t want to admit it to yourself, you know, he’s got no commitment to you. When your actual husband cheats on you, it’s a much harder pill to swallow, even if you really didn’t want him anyway. She was both the cheated on and now the cheater, which is a very unique situation to be in. So my love goes out to Baltimore and my sweet friend who I love very much. I know that neither situation is easy, but I will say this. It is true that sometimes it is fun to have someone tell you all the things that you want to hear. And, you know, I said to Michael the other day in the car, do you still think I’m beautiful? And he said, yes. And I said, how would I know? And it goes back to what I said last week about the busywork. You know, I don’t get any validation from people online telling me I’m beautiful. They say it every day. It’s nice to hear it. Like, thank you for loving me. But it is nice to hear from the man in your life that you are beautiful, that you look nice. My son has become that. You don’t want your son to take the place to do the busy work for your husband. That’s not fair.


[16:17] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK, so let’s get to our first question from a listener that we are calling. Listen, I’m going to be honest with you. Leann has quite the story, so let’s get her on the phone. 


[16:29] Leann: Hi. 


[16:34] Jaime Primak Sullivan: So to summarize, you essentially were married and you met the father of another child who played soccer with your child. And you guys just became friends and that friendship blossomed into an affair. 


[16:53] Leann: Well, I actually left before I had an affair, and he was still with his wife at the time. I had always promised that I would leave before I had an affair. I was unhappy, I would rather leave than do that. So, yeah, I left first. 


[17:09] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Good for you. That is so brave. Everybody says I would leave before I have an affair. And most of us do not. So hard. So hard. OK, so you left and then you felt a certain license to pursue this relationship despite the fact that this man was still married. 


[17:29] Leann: Yeah. He actually reached out to me. There’s this team chat so you can access people’s phone numbers and emails and stuff like that. So he texted me and it’s, you know, our friends, we’re really good friends. So it just blossomed from there. We just talked a little bit about the kids and then it was, you know, flirtatious. And then he wanted to meet up with me. And then I’m like, what will that hurt? You know, we have a lot to talk about. He wasn’t happy in his marriage. So, like, you know, no big deal. And then, like, we instantly connected and it was just a shit show from there.


[18:07] Jaime Primak Sullivan: And how long did it take from when you guys connected for it to become sexual? 


[18:13] Leann: Like a month. 


[18:14] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK. And to be honest, the sex is so fucking good in an affair. 


[18:20] Leann: I’m going to be like 100 right now. It was in the car. So I felt like 18 again. We didn’t really have anywhere to go and just, I don’t know, it’s just a hot freakin mess. But man, he finally left her, which he’s always told me that he would do, you know, got his own bank account, you know, got his own cell phone service. I’m totally thinking he wants to be with me. You know, he’s doing everything he needs to do. Showing me that he wants to be with me. And everything was good for maybe a month. And then he chose to go back to her and didn’t really tell me. He just kind of left me hanging. We never really had, like, a break. So I struggled with that for some time. There was no closure. So I moved all my life. I’ve tried online dating crap, and then I hear from him again, like a month ago. It’s even worse than his marriage now. He still loves me and all this bullshit. And I’m just like. And I still have feelings for him. I can’t help it. So I just don’t know what the hell to do. 


[19:33] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK, well, are you gonna listen to me? Be honest with me. Are you gonna listen? Are you gonna do what you want?


[19:39] Leann: No, I’m gonna listen to you. 


[19:41] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Tell the truth because I’m OK with you saying, Jaime, I’m probably gonna do what the fuck I want. 


[19:45] Leann: Well, that depends. Right now, like, I have my whole heart into what you are going to tell me to do. 


[19:51] Jaime Primak Sullivan: OK. So first and foremost, I want to recognize and honor — and I know people are listening going, how can you honor that? Because we are human beings. And whether a relationship, a friendship, a sexual relationship, any relationship, whether it is “right” or not, does not negate its realness. So let me be crystal clear with you. The time you spent this with this man: a fantasy world. Very real feelings, but the world you created was a fantasy. It would be like if I took the two of you and put you in Oz. The world around you is make believe. But the feelings that you feel are real, even though they’re not. Now, what do I mean by that? I mean that there are feelings to be had and lessons to be learned. But in an affair, it is what I liken to a controlled study. In science, when they test drugs and things like that, they do controlled studies and not controlled studies, controlled studies or where people stay in the environment. They come into the hospital or whatever, and they monitor them and they watch their blood. You know, it’s controlled. And then there’s other people they give the same drug to and they send them out into the real world. 


[21:30] Jaime Primak Sullivan: When we are having an affair, we are getting the absolute best that somebody has to offer. Now, think about it. You’re having an affair with a man. You’re not smelling his farts. He’s not picking you up in the car and farting. It is a controlled study. Every single interaction is how can I be what he’s not getting? How can I be the funniest, the sexiest, the most engaged? How can I pour into him? How can I be the best listener? You will listen to a man talk about a motherfucking bulldozer and an engine he fixed and a fuckin spark plug and shit you don’t care about with some new fascination. Let me tell you something. You don’t give a shit about a spark plug, but when this man speaks about it, you care. Suddenly, spark plugs turn you on. You want to hear everything at about it because it is the connection that you long for. It is the conversation. Meanwhile, his wife is at home, like, if I have to hear about a spark plug one more motherfucking time and let me tell you why I’m going to go postal and we’re over here like the dumb-ass other women like baby, tell me about your day. Did you eat? What time was lunch? What did Roy say on your break out? 


[22:56] Jaime Primak Sullivan: We look like idiots. So here’s what I will tell you. This guy is not it. He went back to her because that’s what he really wants. He wants to fix his marriage. He just has no idea how. OK, so that House of Cards has fallen and he wants to rebuild it, but he doesn’t know how. So when he feels discouraged and when he feels less than and when he feels defeated like, fuck, I can’t put these cards back together. He comes to you because you’re there clapping for his dick. You got to go. You’ve got to go. And this isn’t about you being the other woman. I’m just telling you, I promise you, there is no happy ending for you here. 


[23:41] Leann: No. And I do want his marriage to work out. I didn’t want my marriage to fail, to be honest. So, yeah, I mean, that helps me in a lot of ways for you telling me that. I needed this call so, so much. Thank you. I appreciate you every day. 


[24:04] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I appreciate you. And I love you. I love you too very much. I know you know that. 


[27:07] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I have an email from a woman that I’m going to summarize for you because it’s very long. I started being the other woman when I was in high school. I am now middle-aged and I feel like I am always the other woman in one way or another. They never want to break up with their girlfriends, but always want to continue to see me. And I never put my foot down. It’s pretty sad, I know, but I just don’t know if I could handle a full-time life boyfriend or husband. OK, well, let’s just say what it is, Anonymous. 


[27:43] Jaime Primak Sullivan: You’re the girl that goes to the ice cream place and orders ice cream for the toppings. You just want to eat the fucking Oreos off the top. You’re the girl that picks off the top of the donuts, the top of the muffin. That’s who you are. You just want the fucking toppings on it. That is who you are. Why is it sad if you know what it is? It’s not sad. It would be sad to me if you said I desperately want to be a wife. I don’t know why I keep doing this. You’re saying I can’t handle a full time, real life boyfriend. But let me check you a little bit. You do realize you can be in casual relationships with people who are not in other relationships. Is it that you fear that if you get close to somebody you know who isn’t in a relationship, that they will in turn try to tie you down because, you know, you have the freedom to say, I don’t want that. So there is part of you that needs to feel like someone is choosing you over someone else. And that is the part of yourself you have to heal because it is perfectly acceptable for you not to want a relationship. It is perfectly acceptable for you to go back to your ho phase and just fuck around town. There are plenty of men or women, you didn’t say, who would be happy to fill that spot for you who are not in committed relationships. So there is nothing wrong with your behavior short of you are choosing the people you are choosing to participate in that behavior with people who have made commitments to other people. So, I just want you to know, like, I’m super down for you to just hang out, keep things casual, eat the toppings off the ice cream, but don’t eat the toppings off somebody else’s ice cream. Get your fuckin ice cream and just eat the toppings. It’s so simple. If I go with you to get ice cream and we both get vanilla ice cream and we both get cookies on top and you reach over and start eating my cookies, what am I going to say to you? 


[29:58] Jaime Primak Sullivan: You got your own fucking cookies. Don’t eat mine. Don’t eat the cookies off somebody else’s ice cream that they put the work in, that’s not cool. Now, I’ve done it and I’ve had it done to me. You can still have the detached, carefree experiences you’re looking for. Because you’re not married, you’re single, you can bounce from man to man to room to room to house to house. Just don’t do it with somebody else’s man. You know what I’m saying? And if you feel compelled, if you are only turned on by knowing it’s somebody else’s man, then that, to me, is different because cheating becomes a moral splinter. When it is a behavior, when it is a pattern. If you have an affair, if you are the other woman once in your life, that is a bad decision. You are not a bad person. If you continuously just fuck other people’s men, you got a problem. That’s a totally different thing. But Jaime, I thought you don’t judge. I’m not judging. I’m just letting you know that’s a pattern. And you got to figure out why you’re doing that. You could be single, carefree, jump from house to house, bed to bed, dick to dick, pogo sticks. I don’t care. Whatever. But when you only want to do it with other people’s men, there’s something you’re not confronting. Your need to be chosen, girl, you’re like the sexual Seabiscuit. You are trying to race next to every other woman, like, watch me catch this man! OK, relax, Seabiscuit. 


[32:06] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Our next listener has been the other woman twice in her life. To summarize, she says the first time it was casual and didn’t happen very often. So when I found that he was married, I didn’t really care that much. I found out I was pregnant and I was so happy to have my daughter, who is now nine. The second guy was a little bit different. He was my friend at work. I was his age. And we spent a lot of time together really getting to know each other. After a couple of years of being good friends, he came over to help fix something at my house. It sounds like the beginning of a porn. Ding dong. I’m here to fix your copier.


[32:47] Caller: My thought was, well, he’s a friend. I’ll let him come over. All the time, never wanting to get into another relationship with a married man just because, my gosh, I’m going to have to tell my daughter one day that her father, you know, was — it was an affair. And then I certainly didn’t want to have that happen again. But it did. And it was really hard because I really did fall for this one. So anyway, it’s over now. And during the time that the affair was going on, I looked up stuff about how smart women become the other woman. I mean, I was smart, college educated, working in a professional services firm, you know, intellectual type person. How did this happen again? You know, it’s not always that person is looking to ruin, you know, a marriage, or looking to be a homewrecker, or is the super hot chick that men just can’t, you know, say no to. I’m none of those things. So you start to feel like a bit of a social outcast and because of that might withdraw from friendships. It does definitely change how you think about people. So thank you so much for doing this Jaime, I cannot wait to listen to this podcast. Thanks.


[34:07] Jaime Primak Sullivan: How do smart women become the other woman? Well, really smart women become the other women when they are also married. You’re only really smart as the other woman when you are also married. Because it’s a level playing field. Everybody’s got the same stakes. When you’re single and you’re the other woman, it’s 52 pick-up, baby. You’re just picking up the dirty underwear that the wife threw on the floor. Doesn’t want to pick up anymore. You’re doing the busy work. That’s it. I don’t give a fuck how bad that hurt your feelings. You are not smart if you are the other woman and you are single. You are smart if you are the other woman and you are both gaining something from this affair and you both have the same expectation and you both have the same baggage and you both have the same situation. Nobody’s gonna blow up anybody’s life. Everybody has the same thing at stake. And you’re crystal clear about what you’re not getting in your marriage. And he’s crystal clear about what he’s not getting in his. And you work together to meet those needs. That, to me, is the only smart way to have an affair. I didn’t say right away. I didn’t say good way. I said smart. So how do smart women become the other women they’re married to? That’s it. That’s my answer. Being in an affair is brutally isolating when you are single and he is married. It’s demoralizing. You’re the understudy. You have to see pictures on Facebook of him and his wife and his kids, whether he convinces you it is a snapshot of happiness or not. They are still living a whole life together while you are home waiting for the text. Waiting for the night he can get away. And you never even feel good about it. You try to make the wife out to be the villain in this story because it justifies your ways and means. 


[36:27] Jaime Primak Sullivan: She’s not the fucking villain. Mind your business. Her marriage is none of your damn business. How she treats her husband is none of your damn business. Her making her children her priority and not sucking her husband’s dick anymore is none of your business. You want to be the side chick? Know your place. That’s it. Be the side chick. Wait your turn. He will come to you when it is convenient for him and not one second before. And if you don’t like it, change your role. You want to get wife privileges, become the wife. You don’t want the wife privileges. Stay in your lane. I know it sounds harsh, but I really don’t care. I already told you I’m not leaving if Michael has an affair. But you better know your place. You want to look at my Facebook page and see pictures of me on Michael and my kids. Good for you. Good idea. Do you like my outfit? I don’t care. Mind your business. Stay in your space. When he comes over, let him teabag you, ask him if he drank enough water, pick up the cards and send him the fuck back home, period. I’m not leaving him for that. I’m not.


[37:39] But you better know your place and you better know it’s a lonely, demoralizing, awful place to be. Wait for the holidays to roll around when he’s with me all day, opening presents, taking pictures for Christmas cards. All of it. And you could say, oh, but you look like a fool because he’s sleeping with somebody on the side. No, I don’t. No, I do not. My mortgage is paid for. My kids are loved and adored. You’re doing the busy work. Pick up my cards. I blew them over. Pick them up. You do the crazy eights hand jobs, you fucking make him lasagna because his wife hasn’t made it for him and it’s his favorite food. You be that chick. And when you are the side chick, own it. Know it. Be that chick. Do it happily. If you’re going to be the side chick, don’t be miserable. This is what I can’t stand. The miserable side chicks. Are you kidding me? You willingly get into a relationship with a married man just to be miserable? Sis, no. You’re sitting home crying? Are you fucking kidding me? Get out of here. The ones that become the girlfriend, now you really got me fucked up. So let me get this straight. You know this man has a wife and a whole family, and you put a label on your shit. Do you want to go out with me? Check yes or no? Yes, I want to be your girlfriend. OK, Girlfriend, sit there and wait till I could text to you. You look like an asshole. I mean talk about demoralizing. And I’m not shaming you cause I’ve been there. I’ve been there. [39:26][6.0]

[39:28] Jaime Primak Sullivan: I was the other woman for three years. And I fooled myself. He used to spend whole holidays with her and then come see me at like 11 o’clock at night. And I would convince myself that that’s really what he was waiting for all day. No, it wasn’t. He just didn’t want me to leave, so he gave me the bare minimum. I glorified the bare minimum as the other woman, I glorified it, relished in it, celebrated it. You know how many nights he would ask me what time is it? While he was laying in bed next to me, knowing that he had to go home. And it would kill me inside, it gave me fucking diarrhea. It was awful. My stomach hurt all the time. And I’m not the woman that would leave, but there are a lot of women that would. And being a homewrecker does not feel good. It just doesn’t, even if you win. Even if he chooses you. Even if he marries you, guess what? He still always feels some type of way about his wife, his first wife and his children. There is still a regret that is attached to your new love and your relationship. There is still a regret, always. Even if he loves you and it works out. He still looks back and wishes it didn’t end that way, that he didn’t do that. And the kids, even when they’re fine, they’re not really fine. They’re fine, but they’re not really fine because they, too, wish it didn’t end like that. They, too, wish that their mother didn’t have to live in that embarrassment. And didn’t have to sacrifice parts of herself to protect her children. You know, because that’s what affairs do, they put women in a defensive position. Now she has to sacrifice parts of herself to protect her children. And then the children grow up and they know that their mother had to sacrifice parts of herself. She didn’t want to sacrifice to protect them. And they look at their father and go, you’re a fucking asshole. I love you, and I’m conflicted about the way I feel because you’re my father, but you’re kind of an asshole. When you’re a child and you’re one of your parents has an affair, you get angry. There is an anger in that. There just is because your first loyalties in this life on this planet are to your parents. 


[42:19] You know, your first love when you’re a boy is your mom. The most admirable man when you were a girl is your dad. When they do something to the other parent? You feel the need to defend that other parent. And yes, you can repair relationships with your kids and yes, they will be okay. And kids are resilient. And all those things. Anyway, this is complex and we won’t solve it all. But I’m glad we started the conversation. And if there’s anybody out there right now listening who is the other woman, it’s a fantasy world. The feelings are real, but it’s a controlled experiment. It’s a controlled environment. It’s not real life. Think about it. When he comes to see you, you always look your best. You wash your vagina in the sink. You know, like, this is not real. It’s the topping off somebody else’s ice cream. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t taste good. It does. But it’s not your ice cream. So, again, I’m still not leaving if Michael has an affair. I’m not leaving. So if you’re listening to this and you’re having an affair with Michael, congratulations. I’m eating the toppings and you’re eating the fucking ice cream cause I’m not leaving. 


[43:46] Jaime Primak Sullivan: What can you take away from this episode? We can all agree that there are a lot of ingredients that go into a relationship, right? Well, sex is amazing in an affair, but every other part feels like shit. So imagine somebody making shit gumbo. Every once in a while you get a bite of lobster and it’s like, amazing. But every other bite tastes like dog shit. How much of that gumbo do you want to eat? Not that much. And just remember that you are the dick clapper when you are the side chick, you just are. Everything he does. Amazing. And it might be, but it’s not real. And it’s OK if you admit to yourself, you know what, right now I just want to clap for this man’s dick. That’s what I want to do, Jaime. Just let me be in a relationship with this man for a little while. I won’t do it forever, but I want to do it now. And I need to do it now. And it’s for me. And it feels good. And you know what I say to you? Do it. It’s part of your journey. But just know they almost never end well, even if she never finds out. And if she does and she’s anything like me, get ready for her to show up on your fuckin doorstep. How do smart women have affairs? They do them when they’re also married. Otherwise, you’re a fool. Doesn’t mean I judge you and doesn’t mean I haven’t been there. I’m just telling you, you’re not smart. If you’re single and you’re having an affair with a married man, you’re not smart. He has everything to gain. And you have everything to lose. In another way he has everything to lose, and you have nothing to gain but a man who had to give half to another woman. Good luck rebuilding that financial mound of nothingness. 


[45:33] Jaime Primak Sullivan: See? And you guys think I glorify affairs? I do not. I tell you the truth. But sometimes it’s worth staying in it just for a while, just long enough to have the most amazing sex in the world and then send it back to his wife. See if they can figure it out. And to those of you who would never have an affair, great. This podcast was probably not for you. All right, I love you guys very much and I will be back with you next Thursday if you’re still willing to listen to me after this episode, because this was a doozy. I love you and have a great day.


[46:20] Jaime Primak Sullivan: Tell Me What To Do is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Kryssy Pease, and associate produced by Claire Jones. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev. Music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan are executive producers. Rate and review us, and follow us @LemonadaMedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course, you can follow me at Jaime Primak Sullivan on Facebook or at Jaime P. Sullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at 833-453-6662.


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