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This infamous moment from The Ricki Lake Show still lives on over 20 years later in memes and gifs. Ricki and Kalen are revisiting the wig snatch seen and heard across the world. They break down the cheating and scheming that led up to the snatching. Plus, our hosts get real about relationships, fat shaming and the shift in tone about HIV/AIDS in the 90s.

Please note, Raised By Ricki contains mature themes and may not be appropriate for all listeners.

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Transcript: 

SPEAKERS

Ricki Lake, Tracy, Kalen Allen

Ricki Lake  00:13

Hey y’all. It’s me, Ricki Lake. It’s time for Raised by Ricky with Kalen Allen. Great to talk to you today. How you doing?

Kalen Allen  00:24

I’m wonderful. How are you?

Ricki Lake  00:25

I’m on one today. I mean, I’m good. I’m good. I had something very traumatic just happened to me right before going on. I blew out my hair, which you can’t see because I have headphones on and you guys are all listening. Not seeing me. But I made an effort to blow out my hair and I caught, I have piercings, I started. Well, wouldn’t you like to know, no, no, no, no, no, I have a bunch. I have like, I have like, 12 in my each year. Yeah, I have a lot.

Kalen Allen  00:55

You’re an interesting woman, Ricki Lake.

Ricki Lake  00:59

I’m full of surprises. I definitely, I go against type a lot. The fact that I have a tattoo is crazy. Like I would never have gotten a tattoo if my if my beloved hadn’t, you know died by suicide and mental illness and lost love that I thought the love of my life. I thought that, that point. So I did get tattoos and piercings. And I did shave my head and I did go gray and like all these wild things.

Kalen Allen  01:24

Wait, how did that leads you to get a tattoo?

Ricki Lake  01:26

Oh my god, we’re really okay.

Kalen Allen  01:29

This is what I did tell people, this is the trick Ricki does. Okay, Ricki would just bring up stuff if it just like, hit you like they like bombs, but never explain it.

Ricki Lake  01:40

I’m happy to explain it. I just feel like it’s my life. And so I just think it’s not that big of a deal. But you’re right. Things I share are sometimes shocking to people. So Christian, passed away in 2017. And I went through his things, and among his things, I found his wedding vows to me, Christian has struggled with getting his thoughts on the page. So basically, when we got married, he just, you know, impromptu, you know, said his vows to me. When he died and I found his stuff. I went through his box of like sacred things. I found the wedding vow that he had written and it just said, I vow to continue loving you. And that was all he wrote. So I took what he wrote on that page, and I had it put on my arm in his handwriting on our wedding day in 2018. A year later, I’ve never, I’m a Jewish girl. I’ve never thought of getting a tattoo. And it just as a reminder of him loving me and also of me loving myself. You know, it’s like a message of self-love.

Kalen Allen  02:43

Okay, okay, that clears that up for me.

Ricki Lake  02:47

But how does that get from me? ripping out my piercing with a hairbrush?

Kalen Allen  02:52

Okay, yes. Let’s go back there. Let’s go back there.

Ricki Lake  02:55

Oh, this was just 20 minutes ago, and I was just trying to get ready for this thing. And I yanked the piercing and it came out and I had to push it back in and yeah, yeah, so that’s just what happened to me. How are you? How are you today?

Kalen Allen  03:09

I’m good today. I’m good. I’m chillin like a villain.

Ricki Lake  03:13

I think you need to get your ass on Dancing with the Stars.

Kalen Allen  03:19

Now, that was a big jump, wasn’t it?

Ricki Lake  03:21

It’s a segue. But I’m staring if you saw what I’m staring at. I’m actually staring at a picture of myself from that time with […]. Okay, I’m decorating my little recording space and making it my own. And so I’m just putting images that means something to me. And I think you’d be amazing. I’ve never thought about it. Are you a fan of the show?

Kalen Allen  03:42

Oh, yes. Dancing with the Stars has been on forever. Right? So I remember watching it as a kid just like when it would come on ABC only because you know back in the day I used to watch like Desperate Housewives and stuff. Yeah. And also this was like time but like American Idol, you know, when he was really in his prime. But see, Dancing with the Stars wasn’t something that everybody was like, Oh, we got to watch Dancing with the Stars. It was more of a thing. Like maybe if we’re cooking dinner or something like that. And it’s on the TV. Well, let’s just watch it while it’s on you know what I mean? Yeah.

Ricki Lake  04:10

Did you ever see my season? I don’t remember honestly. Oh, my season. It was a good one.

Kalen Allen  04:17

Wait, who was on your season?

Ricki Lake  04:18

Okay, you ready? You ready because it was an excellent cast. I think. Okay. Hope Solo. That was the soccer player, the goalie soccer player who was just had some DUI with her kids or something but she was on it. Nancy Grace. Metta World Peace. That’s an NBA player. Lakers. Yes. Kristin Cavallari. China Phillips. Carson Kressley. Rob Kardashian.  and this guy JR. and he ended up winning. I forgot his last name, but he was a like a war hero veteran and he was severely burned. So he won. And he had to win. He was an amazing dancer. And, you know, he’s a frickin war hero. Like I there was no way there was no way I wanted to win. And that’s what Derek told me. My partner Derek Hough was like, we’re not winning. There’s no way there’s no way and we got we ended up getting third place. Rob Kardashian snuck into second because of all his followers and whatnot.

Kalen Allen  05:23

What was David Arquette on your season too?

Ricki Lake  05:25

Oh, yeah. Oh, shit. I forgot David Arquette. Yes. Just fun fact. I bought my house from David my first my house in Brentwood from David Arquette and Courtney Cox.

Kalen Allen  05:35

I do want to do Dancing with the Stars; I love dance with stars and I went to a taping. So I went my friend Dylan […] Dylan was on pose. And we went to go see James Vanderbeek.

Ricki Lake  05:50

Which, you know, James, is he on Pose?

Kalen Allen  05:52

Yes, he was. He was on season one on Pose.

Ricki Lake  05:55

I know him. I actually know him.

Kalen Allen  05:57

I was sitting in the crowd. And I was watching it. And I was like, this is some professional shit.

Ricki Lake  06:05

It’s incredible how they pull that together. Live television, the set changes the whole thing is so like, I my jaw was on the floor. It was really something and I encourage you, I’m going to be your agent on this one. And, you know, I know a few people over there, but I think you’d be great on it.

Kalen Allen  06:24

Okay, cuz I’m ready to cut a road. And this was before ABC was with Disney. Right? 

Ricki Lake  06:31

ABC has always been with Disney. 

Kalen Allen  06:33

I was only asking us I was wondering if you got any Disney perks?

Ricki Lake  06:37

Oh, I mean, there was definitely like, like they gave me a bathrobe with my name on it. They you know that kind of perks? Are you’re talking like Disney. Oh, I got to go to Disneyland for free with a whole group. We had a guide. Yeah, that’s always fun. It was amazing. Oh, the plane ride the oh my gosh, the plane ride going, you know, because you get on the plane. As soon as the show ends the top three couples get on the Disney jet and fly overnight all night and land and get to GMA in the view. And we oh my gosh, we were a mess. We’d let’s just say we were a mess. I’m not gonna like, you know, call anyone out. But my beloved Christian kind of brought some party favors. And yeah, let’s leave it at that. But we basically arrived, you know, having had no sleep, and had to dance. You know, we had to like perform our number and, yeah, all I can say is I looked good. I looked good. I don’t know about the dancing. Tell me what is up for today? What are we doing?

Kalen Allen  07:39

Okay, first, we gotta go to the almanac. Okay, so the episode we’re looking at today was recorded in September of 94′. Okay? But it aired in October. And the headline in the news, which and we did talk about this. The headline was goodbye, dial up. Hello, World Wide Web, aka the internet, as we know. Now I remember having dial up. We had AOL growing up when I was growing up because you couldn’t get like if I was on the internet. Nobody can answer the phone. It would take forever.

Ricki Lake  08:20

Right. I remember that noise that would make. I mean, it is a blur to think back to that. When we had to, like when we had to go on something and say, www, dot, you know, we have to say the whole thing out.

Kalen Allen  08:36

Because the thing that was confusing me, I was like, goodbye dial up. And you know, this is 1994 I was like, well, I wasn’t born till 1996. And I remember still being like, pretty like.

Ricki Lake  08:46

Annoyed by how long it took?

Kalen Allen  08:49

I remember being at an age that I was still able to comprehend that I had dial up, you know what I mean? Ever. Like, I don’t know if everybody immediately switched over from having dial-up.

Ricki Lake  09:01

Yeah, I mean, I can barely remember what it was like. But I remember fax machines that we had to have and that we had beepers back then there was no cell phones really and pagers.

Kalen Allen  09:16

every time I would use the internet, I was used to getting on disneychannel.com. And I used to play games like know from The Suite Life of Zack and Cody and like, that’s a raven and stuff like that.

Ricki Lake  09:28

So let me tell you, Kalen, you don’t remember a game called Pong do you?

Kalen Allen  09:32

I do. That’s when you got the win, it’s like the two little rectangles. And you got to hit the ball. Well, I played that on my Nokia cell phone.

Ricki Lake  09:44

Just because it was like a flashback. It was like a histologic thing. Yeah, no, that was what I remember in Space Invaders. And I remember Donkey Kong. I mean, yeah, I was definitely into video games back then. And they have to think what they are today. I mean, it just is like the dinosaur age.

Kalen Allen  10:00

At a young age, I had a Nintendo 64. But I really would just go to McDonald’s to play video games.

Ricki Lake  10:07

You got friends go with you or do you go by yourself?

Kalen Allen  10:12

I went by myself, you know, like the play place. Now I never got into the balls because I was like, there’s too much going on in there.

Ricki Lake  10:20

Even then you knew like, germs.

Kalen Allen  10:24

But I used to get on a little video games. And then that was also when GameCube was coming out and stuff like this. Oh, the nostalgia.

Ricki Lake  10:32

If you were around 10 years later, you would have been watching that show of mine.

Kalen Allen  10:37

Oh, yeah. Most definitely. Okay, a top song that was out. You ready for this? I make love to you. 

Ricki Lake  10:50

Is that wait, don’t tell me. Don’t tell me. It’s the four guys and I think they’ve been on my show a lot. Am I butchering this? It’s Boyz II Men?

Kalen Allen  11:02

It is. That was correct.

Ricki Lake  11:04

Okay, that is a miracle that I came up with that. Okay. I think they were on my show. I think they were on like with a Christmas album. Probably. I you know, don’t like sue me if I’m incorrect, but I think they’ve been on the show before. Anyway, I love them. I love their sound. They are so talented. They’re so attractive. Yeah, I was a big fan of theirs. Okay, what else was going on?

Kalen Allen  11:30

We have this People magazine cover from September 1994. And it says Oprah gets personal. She’s happier, more confident and trimmer. I find it interesting that they’re still talking about her weight considering you know, back in 1988 when Oprah came out, and you know, she had lost a significant amount of weight and she had the.

Ricki Lake  11:48

Oh yeah, yeah, that was the wheel barrel. The wheel barrel of fat came out in her tiny jeans.

Kalen Allen  11:54

But I know that she is publicly talked about how that was like, the biggest mistake that she ever made. Because she wasn’t healthy. You know?

Ricki Lake  12:00

Yeah. No, she wasn’t. Yeah, she was on that liquid diet. I think.

Kalen Allen  12:02

Yeah, crazy stuff. Crazy stuff.

Ricki Lake  12:05

Okay, gotta take a quick break before we get back. The wig snatch.

Kalen Allen  12:15

Okay, so this episode is called girlfriend. I’ve slept with your man. And I’ll do it again. And again. And again. AKA the wig snatch episode.

Ricki Lake  12:24

Oh, oh, shit. I can’t say I remembered the show. But the wig snatch is probably the most infamous clip of the show of the entire run. I agree. Right. Would you agree?

Kalen Allen  12:40

I agree. I mean, it still circulates on Twitter.

Ricki Lake  12:44

Yeah, and it was a moment man. It was a moment that nobody expected and I can’t wait to see it again.

Kalen Allen  12:50

Well, it was taped September 9 1994. It aired on October 3, and it reran the day after Christmas, which is an interesting, interesting.

Ricki Lake  13:02

It was just a Christmas present for everyone. Because you didn’t have YouTube back then. You couldn’t just watch it. You know, there was no way to see it other than seeing it on the show. And yeah, I see that as like Christmas. It was definitely everyone’s home eat and Turkey the day after, and they get that extra gift that they weren’t expecting. 

Kalen Allen  13:23

Now the description of the episode was meet women who say they love the challenge of trying to get a man to sleep with them. Any man married or single is the pursuit in the conquest.

Ricki Lake  13:33

Okay, well, this the wig snatch was, I think I believe segment one.

Kalen Allen  13:39

It was and I do want to say there are four stories in this episode. However, I do plan to only really focus on the wig snatch. Because that’s really the light. The climax happens at the top of the show. What is very interesting, because you know, we’ve talked about this episode, you know, amongst ourselves. And you always say that you wish you could have seen you know, your reaction. But I don’t think the reaction you think you had is actually the reaction that you did have. So I’m very excited for you to see this.

Ricki Lake  14:11

Okay. Yeah, me too.

Kalen Allen  14:13

I really want to get a gauge on what was going on in your life around this time. But what I will say so do you remember anything about this?

Ricki Lake  14:23

I mean, I remember that scene, of course, because I’ve seen it so many times on social media, people share it with me all the time, right at the start of the second season, because when we started taping in, you know, right around Labor Day, and so it was, you know, we were a hit show, I was feeling really good. I was madly in love. I was feeling cute as hell. And you know, this moment that happened during the show was something that I would never have expected. So it took me way by surprise. And it’s really after the fact that like I thought about it like that is so taboo to touch a woman’s hair, particularly a woman of color, and you know, it’s like a no, it’s a big fat no, no. And not only did she you know, of course rip off the wig, she ripped off. What do you call it underneath? 

Kalen Allen  15:13

The wig cap.

Ricki Lake  15:14

Wig cap, and I mean, it was so hard not to laugh. I’m guessing I laughed in the actual show. I’m guessing because I’m human. I kept it together was I mad?

Kalen Allen  15:27

Don’t worry, we were going to show you.

Ricki Lake  15:29

Okay, so guess what was going on with these two women?

Kalen Allen  15:32

Okay, so we got Tracy now Tracy is the wig snatcher. So she’s sitting up here she got almost like an almost like a checker board type of plan like white jumper suit. And she got a real fresh French roll. That’s like a pressing Creole kind of moment, you know, real 90s. Then we got Leon and Leon sitting up here. He ain’t got no hairline. Okay, he just end up here looking crazy. Let’s play the clip so you can see what else these peoples is doing.

Ricki Lake  16:00

Tracy, why don’t you explain this to me?

Tracy  16:03

Well, one night, I received a phone call saying hello. My name is […]. Look outside of your car. So I looked outside of my car and my windows was busted out. My tires was flat and I came back to the phone and she said well, Leon won’t be coming home tonight.

Ricki Lake  16:22

Oh, I look cute.

Tracy  16:28

She’s been calling my house and she’s like, busted my windows out like three times. You know, I’ve never seen her before. But this is my opportunity to see her and let her know that she can really sleep with him.

Ricki Lake  16:42

Tracy is mad. Tracy is mad. She mad about the tires. She mad about those tires she mad about? She’s been hooking up with Leon.

Kalen Allen  16:52

Well, what I enjoy about this episode is be like we said this is very top of show. And just the enthusiasm and the energy that Tracy is already getting in the way that she tells the story. The audience has already tapped in. 

Ricki Lake  17:12

So you get why this was the perfect combination for the show because it takes a great story. A great storyteller. You know, and she was, you know, animated and she was fired up. And you know, yeah, it was and he was just sitting there just like if he couldn’t get lower in that chair if he tried, and, you know, the audience was ready for it. It was Leo I keep calling him, Leon.

Kalen Allen  17:41

Leo. No, his name is Leo. I was like, this is who you’re fighting over?

Ricki Lake  17:46

Yeah, no, it’s always the case.

Kalen Allen  17:50

So the lady that that gets her wig snatch. We it’s important that you know that for the whole first part of this episode, we call her Ava. But then we’ve actually found out later on that her actual name is […]. We only know that’s her real name, but every time we say Ava or […] I’ll probably just be like Eva […]. That’s what we talking about. But I do want you to now see the wig snatch.

Ricki Lake  18:57

She goes into round two. Oh, I’m concerned. I’m concerned. Well, there’s my security detail. Okay. Yeah. Well, we went right to commercial break, didn’t we?

Kalen Allen  19:13

You were not too pleased.

Ricki Lake  19:16

I wasn’t I can’t believe I kept a straight face. Honestly. I don’t know how I did that.

Kalen Allen  19:23

Well, you want to know something, Ricki, I didn’t even know that was from your show. I have seen that clip.

Ricki Lake  19:29

You saw it as like a meme and didn’t know?

Kalen Allen  19:30

Yeah, I just always thought it was like this iconic GIF, you know, is it called a GIF? Yeah, I just always thought of it as that this iconic moment that was always being shared on social media and always being talked about, but I never put two and two together. But I’ve known this clip for years, like I’ve known about this moment.

Ricki Lake  19:51

Do you have a newfound respect for me now?

Kalen Allen  19:55

I mean, you had all the good moments.

Ricki Lake  19:58

That was a good one for sure.

Kalen Allen  20:00

Oh yeah, it needs to go into museum.

Ricki Lake  20:04

I shudder to think what the museum would be called. But here’s what happened. I remember some cheese in the middle. So we had the conflict come out. I think since that after that episode, the person who’s in the middle of the triangle got the middle seats so that there was a little bit of, you know, breathing room so that that couldn’t happen again. Now that wig that she was wearing, was that her look or is that a disguise?

Kalen Allen  20:29

Well, she said later on that it was the disguise because she got a whole bunch of other men. And so she don’t want you know, them to see her.

Ricki Lake  20:38

Do you believe that?

Kalen Allen  20:39

I do believe it. I mean, if you listen to she brought up a good point. She, she brought up the point. She was like, now when me and do stuff like this, they’re seen as a player or they see me as you know, they’re doing it, you know, but now I do it. And now I’m the bad guy. But I think what she was leaving out was like, but girl, if that’s your whole motive that you were just, you know, just sleeping with man because you want to you want to have multiple partners, you are leaving out the fact that you are going and slashing this woman’s tires, and busting out her windows.

Ricki Lake  21:19

You know what I mean? So was she justified in laying her hands on her? You think grabbing that wig in the first place? I mean, it was good TV. And now I wonder if that when she went home, I wonder what that was like for her? You know, and I don’t think I thought those things back then. You know?

Kalen Allen  21:38

Well, I think Ricki Lake back then would say, no, it wasn’t just because even when they came back from break, you were like, are you going to keep your hands to yourself? That’s the truth there.

Ricki Lake  21:49

Tracy got upset and she used her hands when she knows she’s not supposed to, right?

Tracy  21:54

Well, I just really want to see how she looked. Yeah. Because she’s been had and had and had and I just wanted to say you..

Ricki Lake  22:01

She’s been hiding and wearing disguises in your day to day life all the time.

Tracy  22:05

And I just want to say, you know, I knew that all that Black straight witch look and stuff, whatnot. And I just want to see what was in there.

Ricki Lake  22:13

`We put Leo between the two of you and you know, to keep your hands to yourself this time. So let’s see the real Eva. Eva, come on out.

Kalen Allen  22:20

Okay, so tell me do you do you think it was justified?

Ricki Lake  22:24

I mean, no one got hurt. I mean, no one got hurt physically. I mean, I would imagine, I don’t know. I now I’m thinking about that woman. I’m thinking about Ava. And what that was like because she was exposed. You know, she was wearing that wig for a reason. You know, her hair really looked like whack when it came when not only the wig came off and the wig cap came off with it. Yeah, it was justified. 

Kalen Allen  23:03

Amen to that because if she didn’t walk that week coming off the she shouldn’t have been busting tires and knocking out windows right? Yeah, we coming back full circle because I was talking about you know, don’t if I don’t see it for you. Don’t cut me Tracy over that might have helped business, you know, with Leo. And that he “come and there you go sit on national television. And you go sit right next to me with the oddest attitude and all this SAS. And you go sit here and say did you sleep in? Who’s supposed to be my man? And you’re gonna admit that you done busted my windows. Honey, you better be glad that the only thing that I did was pull up your wig.

Ricki Lake  23:55

All right, Kalen, we have to take a break when we come back more of the wig snatch drama.

Kalen Allen  24:05

Now, what was interesting was that your reaction is that you were very over it. You know what I mean? I mean, even when you say that we’re going to go to break like you even sound like you are not here for it.

Ricki Lake  24:20

Oh, I think I okay. That’s really interesting. Yeah, so I’m surprised. I was not laughing. I mean, I must have been really scared that they were going to hurt each other. I think it was probably one of the first times where they got out of the chair more physical, like looked like they were about to get physical. I don’t know what was going on in my mind, but I’m actually happy that I didn’t laugh. You know, because I am now Uber sensitive to All Things Hair, you know, with my own hair loss journey and I have, you know, the utmost respect for an all women with you know, having, you know, having to have to wear a wig. Whatever. So what are you thinking? What are you thinking? And you think I was just having a bad day and I wasn’t in for the fun?

Kalen Allen  25:05

I honestly don’t know, this was the first time that I had seen you have this type of reaction, you know? So I think I’m more so trying to think of all the different reasons as to why you would have this type of, you know, candor about yourself that. So I’m like, maybe did you think that it was going to escalate? But then I’m like, well, I don’t know if you would have thought that because you clearly had security there, you know, because, like they immediately sprung into action. You know what I mean? 

Ricki Lake  25:35

That’s nice to see, yeah, they did. They did get right to it. And no one got hurt. No one ever really. No one ever got hurt on my show, right?

Kalen Allen  25:43

Oh, now we do need to talk. There’s another moment in here that I found to be very interesting. Okay. So Noel is […] friend, right? And she’s sitting in the audience. Now. She said that she knows her friend sleeps around, but she doesn’t judge. And she even said that she was still crushing tail with her boyfriend. Girl that’s given boo boo […]. Now what was crazy about this moment, is that when a whale stands up and says that she is you know, Eva slash and tails, Fran Tracy, then makes fun of Ava for being in friends with the quote unquote, fat white girls.

Kalen Allen  25:43

Oof. Oof, Oof, Oof. Yeah. I mean, she went there. She went there.

Kalen Allen  26:41

I don’t know why that comment was necessary.

Ricki Lake  26:44

Because she’s mean, that was mean, it was uncalled for.

Kalen Allen  26:48

Out of left field. Like, what did that have to do with anything? You know what I mean? Like, I feel like, if there was any moment that was like, Okay, girl now, I am glad that you took a stance in that, you know?

Ricki Lake  27:04

It struck a chord with me, I certainly can relate, you know, to having been fat not you know, the whole word of the word fat. I don’t know, you know, it offends certain people, other people are fine with it. It’s such an interesting, you know, complex conversation. But no, it was uncalled for. It was a moment that I and I was not having it.

Kalen Allen  27:25

Yeah, and you shouldn’t have because it was like, what the hell does that have to do with anything? You know what I mean, now, Ricki, I honestly don’t know what was going on. But just for me watching all the you are definitely in rare form.

Ricki Lake  27:38

I was in a mood, huh? 

Kalen Allen  27:41

I think, you know, because we’ve had this issue of fat shaming happen in other episodes. And many of the times I’ve asked you like, well, why didn’t you say anything? Why didn’t you speak up or something? But this time. You did.

Ricki Lake  27:52

I did speak up. Yeah, I mean, the good think of is, you know, this was the start of the second season. We were riding high, the show is just, you know, huge, huge hit. And maybe I was feeling my oats and I could have been sensitive. But I you know, I guess it was the beginning of you know, me taking sort of the defense of the marginalized. You know, that girl, I saw myself in her and I came to her defense in that moment. Yeah. I’m really glad I did.

Kalen Allen  28:20

I think it Oscar could be as that because it was already just so out of control from the top. You were probably like; this is too much going on. You know what I mean? Like, you were probably just already over it. You know what I mean?

Ricki Lake  28:33

Looking back, it was just over the tarp enough, you know, because it was like, nobody got hurt, really. And you know, that moment lives on into perpetuity. I think, you know, it’s forever, like the clip that I think is synonymous with, you know, the Ricki Lake Show. Yeah,

Kalen Allen  28:51

I agree. I think what’s also interesting about this episode is like HIV-AIDS, and we had this conversation come up a lot, you know, and the way that this time period has always explained to me was that it was always branded as like a gay disease, you know, but on your show, and specifically, this episode, this is the first time that I’ve ever heard it being talked about in a way that is actually more universal. That is not just something that is that is circulating within the career space, but also something that everyone is affected by.

Ricki Lake  29:27

Wow, interesting.

Kalen Allen  29:28

Yeah, we got a clip.

Ricki Lake  29:35

When you’re with Ava, do you use condoms? Put him on the spot.

Kalen Allen  29:55

Yes, that’s when he denies it. I didn’t know if she was lying. Like, if she knew that was a girl named […] slash Eva, if a foe was HIV positive? And is that why Leo is like, No, I didn’t have sex or because of that, you know, this kind of word. It gets a little confusing.

Ricki Lake  30:16

It’s definitely, definitely, definitely and yeah, that’s interesting what you say about yeah, I guess there did become a shift when it was more. What was talked about in the heterosexual community. HIV-AIDS.

Kalen Allen  30:27

You know, I just wanted to focus on this specific group, because so much is happening. What’s also interesting is later on when the other people do come on to the stage, you know, with similar stories, even one of the ladies in the other groups, she says that Leo was trying to flight where her backstage.

Ricki Lake  30:46

Once a dog, what did they say once a cheater, always a cheater. 

Kalen Allen  30:50

It’s really crazy. Have you ever had to deal with a cheater?

Ricki Lake  30:56

Personally, never. I have never to my knowledge been cheated on. Which is crazy. Like both of my marriages ended. You know, when I was like a 10 year marriage, my two sons and my second husband passed away. But I know people I mean, very close to me very, very close to me who have dealt with infidelity. Have you?

Kalen Allen  31:17

No, well, honey, I’ve never been in a relationship. I was always focused on work.

Ricki Lake  31:21

Wait, you’ve never been in a relationship? 

Kalen Allen  31:23

Nope. 

Ricki Lake  31:24

So you’ve never been in love? 

Kalen Allen  31:27

I would say I’ve been in love. 

Ricki Lake  31:31

No. Do you want do you want partnership? Do you want to have like a long term relationship?

Kalen Allen  31:40

I would, I would say yes. I will say also recently, I think I have been in the space of being like, wow, I don’t know if I necessarily see the purpose. You know what I mean? Maybe that’s something I need to like, go to therapy and talk about, but, I don’t know. I think I’m just also so used to just being on my own. That life is like, it’s like something that yeah, it’d be nice.

Ricki Lake  32:04

My unsolicited advice is just keep your heart open. You never know what’s coming down the pike. And I just, you know, being in love is obviously the best drug in the whole wide world. I love it. I love it. I’m so happy. I feel like every relationship every experience has led me to where I am now with this relationship. And life is good. Life is good. I hope it’s good for Eva slash […] slash Tracy and Leo. I hope that they’re that they look back on their time with me back in 1994 with some you know, humor, and a smile on their face. Fond memories. 

Kalen Allen  32:45

Amen to that. 

Ricki Lake  32:48

All right, so what’s your homework from this episode? Would you say?

Kalen Allen  32:51

Well, I mean, from you is go to therapy and keep my heart open.

Ricki Lake  32:57

I mean, I mean, I think those are really good things actually. And for me, I think I need to like pull out that Ricky from this episode and be a little bit more, you know, stand my ground a little bit more. Okay, that sounds good. This was fun, Kalen. Thank you all for listening.

Kalen Allen  33:15

Yes, make sure y’all rate and review the show because we love to see them. And you know, we always try to grow and be better. 

CREDITS  33:26

Raised by Ricki with Ricki Lake and Kalen Allen is a Lemonada Media Original. This show is produced by Claire Jones and Nancy Rosenbaum. Our associate producer is Tiffany Buoy. Our senior director of new content is Rachel Neill, VP of weekly production is Steve Nelson and our executive producers Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer and DeRay Mckesson, and the show is mixed by Johnny Vince Evans. Music is written and produced by Jellybean Benitez, Jason Peralta and Jay Coos for Jelly Bean Productions.