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I feel so much kinship and connection in my conversation with Alok, and not just because they show up wielding one of my purses. The poet, model, comedian, and many-other-hyphenate brings their full self to The Dylan Hour — and also has a lot to share about me, including stories about the time I opened for them as a standup comic. Speaking of the stage, I find out all the holes in their musical theater knowledge, and I even choke down a less-than-appetizing drink so they’ll hold up their end of a Broadway deal. The drama runs high.

Alok is on the road for their “Hairy Situation” standup tour! To get tickets for their European and U.S. dates, head to alokvmenon.com.

You can now buy my debut book, Paper Doll: Notes from a Late Bloomer, wherever books are sold. Follow me on TikTok and Instagram at @dylanmulvaney. Stay up to date with Lemonada on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at @LemonadaMedia.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Alok, Sender 1, Lemonada, Dylan Mulvaney

Dylan Mulvaney  00:43

Hello there, and welcome back to the Dylan Hour. I’m your host, Dylan Mulvaney, and today’s theme of the episode is trying new things, because the drink that this guest selected is definitely one that I’ve never tried before, and I didn’t plan on it. But this guest really does bring out the trying things in me. They have gotten me to do a lot of things over the last two years, since we met each other. And I think a lot of my days of girlhood series was essentially trying new things. But I want to never stop learning, and I never want to stop trying. And I would like to welcome now to the show one of my nearest and dearest friends, an amazing poet, comedian, actor, speaker, writer, all the things my amazing friend, Alok, Hello, honey.

 

Alok  01:26

Hi.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  01:26

This is my roommate, and I was a little surprised to see the purse that you brought with us. Do you have it next to you? Huh? That looks a lot like my purse.

 

Alok  01:38

Yeah, I keep on taking your things.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  01:40

I thought so, but you give me so much of just your time, your energy, your advice, that I feel like a purse or two isn’t so bad.

 

Alok  01:48

I’m glad that we have that on the record.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  01:49

I’m a little nervous. I’m also a little upset, because when I asked you what beverage you would like, you shared something that I’ve never tried, nor I ever planned to, but.

 

Alok  02:01

You have never planned.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:02

Because I don’t think I like this. I think I already know that I don’t like this. So without further, ado, Everybody give it up for Megan and our drinks. All right, usually I try to do a quippy name, but I am too upset about this one. So this is mango juice. And cheers to you getting me to try this.

 

Alok  02:26

I mean, the straws are really cute.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:28

They are they. They’re like, a little bendy.

 

Alok  02:30

Yeah.

 

Alok  02:31

Ffirst my gender, first sips.

 

Alok  02:33

Are you ready?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:34

Uh huh.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:40

It’s thick.

 

Alok  02:40

It’s great.

 

Alok  02:42

Yeah, like, viscous.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:44

Is that normal for this? Oh, wow.

 

Alok  02:47

It’s like, nectary blender, like.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:50

Three more times. Like, it’s like.

 

Alok  02:52

Pulpy.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  02:53

Okay, it’s like, it’s not horrible. It’s not what I would grab for.

 

Alok  02:58

It gets better. I was really afraid that I was gonna have to, like, take your purse and then that becomes your vomit receptacle. I

 

Dylan Mulvaney  03:03

Think this is a good time to tell you all that I don’t like fruit. I don’t like vegetables.

 

Alok  03:08

Fruity person who doesn’t like fruits, which is a hot take period.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  03:11

And you are a fruity person who does like fruits.

 

Alok  03:14

Love, fruits are the ultimate queer community. A banana horrid like, the more fruits I eat, the more my gender expands.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  03:24

That’s deep. This is pretty sweet. I think we should just go into it bitter and sweet of the week. Are you how?

 

Alok  03:30

Yeah. Are you happy? Well, you’re good at transitions.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  03:34

I am. Okay, thank you. It’s only been two years.

 

Alok  03:37

Whoa, okay, bitter. Okay, so I’m just kicking off my tour.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  03:42

Yes.

 

Alok  03:43

And I have a spreadsheet of 32 outfits, and I had to put them together in four hours, which.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  03:50

For any of our audio listeners, Alok selected their Christmas apparel for two days.

 

Alok  03:54

I just looked just because, yeah, I know you like it. I love this. Thank you. That’s really sweet of you. I was thinking. I was like, okay, podcast interview with Dylan. Let me bring something that brings her joy. She might be a little nervy. She might be vomiting on me.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:04

I will say we’re definitely clashing in many ways.

 

Alok  04:07

But I think that’s representative our relationship. Very telling. So I put it off to the last one. I had four hours. It felt like I was on, like, an episode of some reality TV show, like, like some challenge.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:17

Like, it’s almost Tetris.

 

Alok  04:18

But without, I just was throwing things in at the end and.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:21

What’s the state of your apartment now?

 

Alok  04:22

It’s just complete chaos.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:24

Did I try to get you to wear this for a holiday party?

 

Alok  04:25

You did.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:26

Did you wear it?

 

Alok  04:27

No.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:27

I bet you would have gotten kissed if you did.

 

Alok  04:29

That was not a problem for me. Speak for yourself.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:32

I kissed multiple people at that party.

 

Alok  04:35

Two, remember how I became obsessed with holiday parties in December?

 

Alok  04:39

Yes.

 

Alok  04:40

So now I just want to be the holiday party I wish to see in the world every I’m bringing Christmas cheer everywhere I go.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  04:45

Hell yeah, that is so epic of you. And then how about your sweet for the week?

 

Alok  04:50

My sweet for the week was my flight was delayed last night, coming into late, but then we stayed up even later, and that was my sweet. I was so speaking to me. Before they’re like, what brings you joy? I said doing things that I should be sleeping, but I’m doing them anyways, like just chit chatting with my girl.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  05:07

I have no idea how a Loke finds the time in the day to pick up my phone calls nine times chronic chit chatter.

 

Alok  05:15

Love.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  05:16

I think that’s why we actually do phone calls.

 

Alok  05:18

Love. When people like, don’t call, just text me. I’m like.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  05:22

Hate texting

 

Alok  05:23

No. I love being on the phone.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  05:25

That you’re very like, when it’s over, it’s over. Yeah, I have things to do, yeah. And you’re like, you you’re like, do you have anything left?

 

Alok  05:32

Well, my biggest hot take is that I feel like the G and the LGBTQ community deserves more representation, by which I mean ghosters. And I feel like when I don’t say bye on the phone, I just hang up, I’m pledging allegiance to that G to the ghosts I need to be seen. Do you believe in ghosts? Of course, who wouldn’t? I saw one at the end of my bed when I was six.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  05:53

So your suite was, your suite is just, just catching up with you. Oh my god, this is my roommate. So I often will stay in a loake’s apartment if I’m visiting, or they stay in my extra bedroom. What’s the vibe there? Paris Hilton pillow.

 

Alok  06:11

Actually like if you were an imagine what my vibe is, sophisticated, elegant, developed, heightened, conceptual, intellectual, avant garde. Imagine the diametric opposite of that, and that’s staying at your place.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  06:25

Specifically, my extra bedroom is more chaotic than the rest of the house.

 

Alok  06:28

Literally, like there are two possum pillows, which, that’s what.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  06:32

We’re spooked about, because there was only one, and then I walked in last week and there was a second and nobody had been what I really appreciate.

 

Alok  06:38

Is the invitation that if I was ever invite anyone to my bed. We have two possum pillows to communicate with.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  06:43

And Paris Hilton, okay, so, speaking of trying new things, you were putting outfits together for this tour, which you so lovingly invited me to open for at your Netflix is a joke show or that.

 

Alok  06:55

You’re gonna talk about. The time I invited you to open my European tour and you pulled out,

 

Dylan Mulvaney  06:58

Honey, are we, we’re gonna air that out on the station. Speaking Well, Alok does provide me ample opportunities, because they want me at my best.

 

Alok  07:08

I just think she’s so funny, and she’s just shown the world only the tip of her iceberg. She’s actually one of the weirdest people I know. It’s just, she’s just cosplaying as this, like, very like, I think demure.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  07:21

That’s what’s scary, though, is now every guest is just telling everyone how different I am off of this podcast, and I’m like, no Carlo, no, I’m a weird girl. You contain multitudes. We’re multitudes. We’re multi hyphenates, which that when I think about you, I just think of all the different shit you do. Wow, you do a lot of different tools. Can you give us like a list?

 

Alok  07:41

Yeah, okay, let’s see, I dissociate, I self sabotage, yep, poetry, I procrastinate, yep, stand up. I faculty von a law, speaking gigs. I think about meditating, modeling.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  07:58

Wow, what a list. And right now you are sort of in your actress era.

 

Alok  08:04

I don’t know if it’s like an era, because I’ve been the principal actor in my own self destruction for 32 years. So according to my iPhone, I have about 10 hours of screen time a day. So I’ve got a lot going for me. When did the acting bug bite you? So the thing is, when you didn’t have enough going on. My biggest fear is bed bugs. So if we could just opt for another amount of bed bugs. Yes, so I was performing Colombo and Sri Lanka. I remember last year, I started experiencing some itching, and then I Googled how to know if it’s a bed bug. It seemed like a bed bug. So we had to take each article of clothing and our luggage and put it outside in the sun, which is a really humbling moment for me to realize that I cosplay as Dora the Explorer, because my backpack has everything, outfits, cough drops, like anti dirty medication, but nothing’s marked. So if someone’s like, am I having diarrhea, I hand them a pill. I don’t know what’s gonna happen.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  08:57

Your backpack is my purse, because you didn’t bring any purses.

 

Alok  09:01

So true, like, this is okay, this is I don’t want to, I don’t want to traffic in gender stereotypes. But the difference between being non binary and being trans is best encapsulated between a backpack and a purse, because I still have, like, a school backpack that I just take with me everywhere.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  09:17

I don’t own one backpack. But just thing in the world. I actually think the day I came out as a woman, I burned my backpacks. Jan, sport, nowhere.

 

Alok  09:26

I mean, don’t one of the backpacks say trans. Oh, right, transport. But I feel like I’ll be in full glam, like a six inch heel with just my big Butch backpack behind me. I just want people to know I’m down to study. Always. Any moment, did you ever have that runner in your like, middle school or high school that was, like, had the big backpack and then would really just, like, book it across the quad. Are you talking about me? I thought so, but I didn’t want to put that on to you. It’s just like, you’re gonna have back pain when you’re older. You need one of those pull back packs. But I just felt too cool for that. You felt too cool for it, which is really read the room, where I was not too cool for that. But, you know, we. All have self perception, and that deserves to be honored.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  10:02

Okay, back to bitter and sweet for just one second. I didn’t share mine with you yet, so my bitter is that my tummy has been hurting, and it’s been a real strain on our friendship. You really keep trying to get me to do something about that, and I don’t want to, and I’m just glad.

 

Alok  10:19

That we’ll have, once again, more evidence, I feel like it’s for the you trying to get you to do anything. I have to be like a court of law, like, I have to be a lawyer presenting data evidence, like making pitches. So in like two years, whenever you’re literally having, like, there’s like a there’s like a hole inside of you, I could be like, remember when I foretold this and you just foreshadowed it?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  10:38

Oh shit. Well, my sweet, is that my celebrity crush liked me back on Raya, so do you know who I’m talking about?

 

Alok  10:46

No, but I bet they’re gonna unlike you after you’re airing your business.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  10:51

No, they don’t know. Oh shit, well, I think I can, because if we’re meant to be together, then they’re gonna have to accept the fact that I have a podcast and I talk about shit on here.

 

Alok  11:03

Okay, so, like, in terms of, like, least hot things to lead with, and flirtation saying I have a podcast, if there’s like, other synonyms, we could have, like, I care all my dirty laundry to millions of unsuspecting people.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  11:17

Which we’re doing less of. Also, I will say that my suite was that my comedy set did go really well, so well, you’re so funny. Thank you. And I think that I owe getting back into stand up because of you. It’s it’s true. It is true. I was doing stand up comedy for like a year before my transition, kind of a non binary rite of passage, and I then was.

 

Alok  11:38

A reference to JDS.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  11:40

Shit, a moment of silence.

 

Alok  11:43

So yes, you opened for me, and I was sitting there in the audience, just flummoxed, just gobsmacked, just delighted beyond belief, because you’re such a professional. Thank you, by which I mean you waited into the very last minute to write and sent me a script with so many typos. I said, Girl, if there was a teleprompter, you’d be mispronouncing your own name, but I actually think it would read it correctly.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  12:04

If it was written correctly, I’d probably misspell it, yeah.

 

Alok  12:08

But you were so such a natural and beloved. Everyone literally lost their shit for you. And then, after my own show, if you recall, the entire staff of the comedy club wanted photos with you, the true comedic superstar.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  12:21

Stop. I’m pivoting from this compliment because, speaking of procrastination, you now have a brand new comedy show, yes, that you would call me. We were like, where did you went to Stanford, yes, and you just locked yourself in a room, yes, and just wrote, like, the window, basically of a library. It’s more dramatic. No windows, right? And what was that process like for you devastating? I thought so. It’s so hard making art. I had never called you before where you actually sounded like, not.

 

Alok  12:48

Well, I genuinely, every single time I’m writing something new, it’s not like riding a bicycle. I have to, like, relearn how to do it every time. And I get so bored of my BS, I’m like, Oh, I’m making another joke about that. Be funnier, you know? Yeah, I’m just like, the harshest critic of myself, and I’m heckling myself as I write. How do you feel about your current show? Like I love it.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  13:09

Yeah, I do too.

 

Alok  13:10

I l, u, v, at stream it. Camila Cabello, other than that, I love it. I love it. I’m I’m feeling really proud because I put in the time. It’s really great. But what I feel most proud of is that I really challenged myself. I wrote an artistic vision of statement before writing my stand up comedy show about what I hope to accomplish for my own creative and personal goals, and I did it.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  13:34

Period, proud of you. Thank you. How does this sort of iteration of the show differ from what you just were performing for the past few years.

 

Alok  13:43

Yeah, so I feel like to this point of having multiple cells, many people know me for my like, extreme erudite use of words, like erudite and being articulate, and like speaking and waxing poetic, and that’s definitely a part of me. But I’m also really into tomfoolery, like, obsessed, yeah, and what I wanted to do in the show was to show people what really goes on in my brain and how, basically every thought is telling like a knock knock joke at my skull, trying to get out and but.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  14:16

A really smart.

 

Alok  14:18

Really love humor so much. And I love being snarky. And I love,  comedy.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  14:24

I think what’s funny about your comedy is that my favorite moments of the show were when you, like, would lean in and be a little stupid. And then I think your favorite jokes to tell are the really, like, sharp ones, or, like, getting that good pun in there. And I like, do you feel like I bring out a little bit of your like, wild, silly, stupid self, yeah.

 

Alok  14:44

You, I don’t know if that’s the kind of influencer you want to be, but you make me feel more stupid. Oh, and I am very grateful for that nicest thing. You. Thank you for your leadership and making me lose intelligence. You have made me so much smarter, and I. Actually, if being stupid is a part of my brand, it’s gonna be a problem down the line. I will say, like an MFA would be really good for me.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  15:08

You’re do you have an MFA?

 

Alok  15:09

No, but I have two Master’s degree.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  15:11

Yes, that’s that tracks.

 

Alok  15:13

Yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  15:14

As far as like being like you love friendships like, I’ve heard you talk about how like friendships to you or like your like, love interest relationships, right? And then as I ignore like 15 of your calls, yes, yes, but like we it’s giving co dependent, oh, in a healthy way. I don’t know if that might be an oxymoron. It’s on my end, I think,  I don’t know, because I don’t have, like, a lover to call. So I call you.

 

Alok  15:41

Well, let’s interrogate this. I’m loving like my subtle glances to the camera. It’s like we’re both in on it more than I am. I love it. Okay, so, like, there’s this viral Tiktok. Wow. I just made a reference to your community.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  15:53

Thank you. We don’t know how much longer we’re gonna be around.

 

Alok  15:56

I you know you guys are getting criminalized, erased and hunted. I’m talking about trans people, not Tiktok. Anyway, I was gonna say Tiktok as well. So intersection, anyways. So I saw this viral Tiktok about someone saying, like, how hard it is to be alone and not be in a romantic relationship. And I was thinking about that, and I was like, actually, one of the joys of being trans is that from a very young age, I felt like no one is going to love me, so I need to learn how to love myself, one and two, how to build meaningful relationships, so that I always have community and I’m never truly alone. Because I was afraid I might lose my family. I was afraid I might lose so many people. I wanted to know that I could actually create meaningful relationships with people, and so friendship has actually always been my primary relationship and way of being in the world. I don’t believe in small talk. I’m just interested in going deep with people, and I have friends all across the world in every single time zone, so I never actually have to feel alone, because I can call them at any time of the day anywhere, right? And I’ve never felt that sense that we need to be in a romantic relationship in order to have access to that kind of care and support, because I have it so available within my own community.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  17:06

It’s kind of like that Charlotte quote in Sex and the City when she’s like, maybe, you know, we’re each other’s soulmates, and guys can just be that thing that we just have fun with. Sometimes I’ve never felt more seen you are, oh, this is good sex and city. Which character are you?

 

Alok  17:25

I feel like there’s a bit of me in everyone but Miranda mostly.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  17:27

I feel that, yeah, I feel like I was Charlotte, and I’m moving towards a Carrie or Samantha hybrid situation.

 

Alok  17:36

I see more of a Carrie situation, but I hold that. I did some aspirations that was scary, yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  17:58

In the beginning of our friendship, conception. We went out to dinner. Well, first I went to see your your last comedy show, and I went, hi Loke, and you walked by me. I don’t think you heard me, but I was so scared. I was like, Oh my God, this person hates me.

 

Alok  18:12

What I want to be very clear to everyone listening is that I have what I call permac stink face. And what that means is, in combination with your post 911 racism and my promostafa, people think that I’m angry all the time and I’m not angry. My default face is just not and so everyone thinks like, oh, it locates me. Is it that I hate you, or is it that you’re rejecting I just feel like, if you have promostaff And you’re white, people give you the benefit of doubt, but if you have primasima And you’re Brown, it’s a double whammy, you know, like, I have to overcompensate for people’s racism. Being like, so great to meet you. And I can’t just be like, hey. Be like, you’re so angry, really. It also depends on, like, what’s the status of my gender presentation a given day? Right? I think about this a lot. If I was to get hate crime, what would the headline say? And it depends on which version of my gender I’m giving. If I have a long beard, things are gonna get complicated. If I just happen to be in my hetero herb outfit that I’m you know, you’ve seen it when I’m in my sweatpants and I’m flying, yeah, things might be a little interesting or if I’m giving full glam away, it’s just I’m all over the place.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  19:17

You came home last night, though, and your airport outfit was giving like cis woman mother, like you looked so FEM and soft. And I was like, hello?

 

Alok  19:27

Yes.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  19:27

You look beautiful.

 

Alok  19:28

Thank you. I like to keep it changing.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  19:30

You are always changing.

 

Alok  19:31

Always.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  19:33

Quite literally and figurative.

 

Alok  19:34

Why did we bring up her? Oh, because after my show, you probably expected me to deliver an hour and a half emotional testimony and then be emotionally available for the one I didn’t even know.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  19:44

Oh yeah, but our first dinner, we then after the comedy show, I think I was probably going through it in some sort of media, being targeted again. He just that feels casual, just being scared of those, yes, but not like you. I mean. Not competition, but, and actually, that one was, like, before any of the crazy Yes. So we went out to dinner. I was, like, kind of nervous, but I loved I kind.

 

Alok  20:10

Of what were you thinking? Were you thinking I’m just gonna be like, Sage prophetess, poetess being like, discursive analysis.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  20:16

I was scared that I was just gonna say the wrong thing, and then you were gonna, like, cancel you, not that you were just gonna, like, run to every cool person, be like, Dylan Mulvaney, is not it? But we really did connect. We really connected and gave you, gave me one of the greatest gifts in the world, which is Maury. And Maury is our life coach that we both share. And I was going through it, and I had asked, like, everyone in Hollywood. I was like, I’m looking for, like, a therapist or someone can who can help me not want to die and try to do all of this world. And you were like, the first person that was like, this is the woman you need. And I feel like, because we’ve both gone to her now for so long that we have like, a way of communicating. Like, for example, one of the big themes with Maury is like higher self. And I feel like you sort of bring my higher self out. I probably don’t bring your higher self.

 

Alok  21:06

Do my highest self as someone who laughs a lot. So, oh, really, yeah, okay, that’s promising. Yeah. I remember leaving that dinner being like, whoa. This girl’s an artist. Wow. I remember being like because I wasn’t as well versed as I am now and your theater background.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  21:21

Because of the dance and songs that I do for you while you lay in bed.

 

Alok  21:26

Yeah, or you’re just deep, like, archival knowledge of every musical ever created, ever.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  21:31

Yes, with Broadway.

 

Alok  21:32

And I’m new, like, I’m clear and questioning. I’m really trying to learn more about the musical community. I feel like I just have, I’ve had a fraught relationship in the past, but I’m healing. Speaking of trying new things, you’ve tried it all at this point, but I’ve just not just not done musical, no musicals, but we can talk about Broadway first, like, what auto tuning in the musical community? Yeah, I’m I pushed for that. Okay, it’s not there yet. If I could be that girl, if I could do that, I’d be open.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  21:54

Have you ever seen such a beautiful night? Do you know that song?

 

Alok  21:58

No. you’re about to ask me to start singing, and I was gonna walk off your podcast.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  22:04

You haven’t seen the Lizzie McGuire movie?

 

Alok  22:05

Of course I have. Yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  22:06

Okay.

 

Alok  22:06

I just the ability to, like, remember songs is something that sticks with you musical people in a ways, where it takes me, like, it takes me about 45 seconds of the song. You can get it in, like, three What scares you about a musical? No, it’s not that it scares me. It’s just that it’s new to me. Just like mango juice. And I’m down to try new things. How about this? Every time I finish this glass of mango juice, I audition for a musical. You audition for a Broadway musical. That’s a hot take. I’m actually showing up be like, do you sing? I’d say, identify as a singer. What would be your song? Like your 32 bar? I don’t know what that means. It means, like, 32 bars of the song. Like, do you have, like, a What would you go to? Okay, what do you actually think you sound the best on? Be honest. You know that fundamental girl group dream. Never heard of them. So this is where I’m aging myself. They used to have this anthem, he loves me. He loves you not. He’s into what a little bit I’m not gonna sing. It just the tiniest that album anywhere on camera. I knew I was a vaga when I felt that album, I literally but was the first album I ever bought after o town, actually. And then I bought that album, I will Venmo you $14 a little bit, turn that up in the car. He’s into what he’s got. He loves me. He loves you not. And I’d just be singing that song, feeling myself okay.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  23:23

So I don’t know if that should be the song that you sing for the audition. Maybe we go with like, happy birthday or like.

 

Alok  23:29

I think it’s an interesting take, because a lot of times people think that comedy is just about making people laugh. I’m also like, it’s about scaring people. So what if also Broadway was not just about being good at music, it was also about making people furious and upset how bad you are in music, and then I could influence a whole new genre of you come to hate listen, because it’s the worst singing you’ve ever heard in your life. The Broadway producers right now are like, Yes, I receive an award to a special Tony Award for my contributions to the canon of the most number of people who have walked out of a show.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  24:02

Wow, now, how about favorite musical? Do you have one that’s dark? Have you seen Wicked?

 

Alok  24:14

I don’t think so.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  24:15

Oh, y’all. There’s a time for firsts, and we’re going to wicked together. We’ll take it edible. This is how our relationship. You’re helping me grow. Okay, deal, yeah, you’ll do that, yeah.

 

Alok  24:27

I think what I had is like, you know, I grew up Indian. I love saying that as this, I’m not Indian right now. And I was I, and then I decided not for me, but we used to watch Bollywood all the time, aka musicals, and I used to dance and sing to all of the musicals. So actually, my first grade talent show, I did an interpretive dance to a Bollywood song called I Love My India, and I was spinning around the stage doing this free dance, singing along, and then the entire auditorium laughs at me. And that’s the first time I remember experiencing Shane. Um, so maybe I need to heal this relationship, because maybe that just circumvented me from being the next big Broadway sensation. What was the response to that performance? Everyone thought that as a boy, I shouldn’t be so camp, spinning around. Well, my interpretive dance was really I mean avant garde, like groundbreaking.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  25:19

And I do think you are camp. We’re different shades of camp.

 

Alok  25:23

Really?  Don’t you think was that racist?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  25:25

No, personality camp?

 

Alok  25:32

Yeah, I think so. I think you’re like, I’m like, I was gonna say I’m dark camp. And then I was like, if it got just this conversation, where you’re like, like, a drag queen took a gender studies course. Camp.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  25:45

Oh, yeah, and I’m like, a cis girl at her first drag show.

 

Alok  25:51

Camp, yeah, you’re like, standing Oh, you’re like, standing out after a toast at a wedding. Camp, oh, the highlight of my life. Like, you were so great, and all you said is, you’re like a sister to me.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  26:04

You are so amazing.

 

Alok  26:06

Yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  26:07

Okay, I’ll take that. How about that? After that first dinner, I feel like what we both learned was that I had a tremendous amount of healing to do, and I think you had already done a lot of that healing, as far as, like, this industry and existing as a trans person. What were the steps that you think that someone like I needed to take in order to get through that healing?

 

Alok  26:28

I think a lot of people don’t have a self concept. They only know themselves through what their parents, their religions, their cultures have told them that they should be and in order to heal, you have to break up with that false self that was created to please the people around you, and actually ask yourself, Who do I want to become? It’s not even, who am I? Because that’s too tall of an order. How do you know if you’ve not experienced it, but what is the kind of person I want to become? And when I saw you, I knew you wanted to become a person that loved mango nectar. Oh, and this is a major moment in your healing evolution, and I want to say kudos to that. That’s what you saw in me, I did. And what’s important to realize is that healing often gets marketed as feeling good, bubble baths, nice, confessional cries, we take a bath tonight. No, but it’s actually extremely painful, because you have to contend with the fact that a lot of people who you thought loved you didn’t, because love doesn’t require you to maintain a fiction of yourself, and it requires you to actually say, I’m lovable for the very parts of me that are inconsistent and weird.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  27:39

Yes, and I’m thank you. I feel like I’m working through a lot of people pleasing. Still, I don’t see you doing a lot of people pleasing on the regular.

 

Alok  27:47

I do really, yeah. How’s that as bad as you so I’ve got my own chat.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  27:52

You got your own shit? Yeah. I think the way that you show love, though, is that you are such a connector. I think you brought a lot of really special friends into my life. Like I think that you do. You kind of get off on, like, pairing people up. It’s like, oh, this is a good person for you to know.

 

Alok  28:07

My favorite thing to do in the world so hot. I just feel like loneliness is the worst. Yeah, I would never want that for anyone. So anytime I have a friend moving to a new place, I’m like, Oh, you have to meet with my six friends there. It’s kind of annoying because I’ll send a follow up text like, Hey, have you two changed each other’s worlds yet?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  28:23

Have you ever set up a love interest before?

 

Alok  28:26

Many.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  28:26

Really?

 

Alok  28:27

Yes.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  28:27

Why is nobody doing that for us?

 

Alok  28:29

Maybe we’re not ready.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  28:31

Maybe we’re a tall glass of mango juice that, and maybe people are like me and they don’t like that.

 

Alok  28:41

Or maybe we’re the love connect we’ve been seeking.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  28:45

The two of us, well, I think we’re already in love, but are we gonna kiss?

 

Alok  28:51

What’s the next transition you have?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  28:53

So, oh, my dad.

 

Alok  28:59

Whoa. So we speaking about family trauma, speaking of family trauma. Yeah, I just helped you with your transition. Thank you.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  29:07

You have and in many ways, we were in San Diego, and that’s where I’m famously from. We went out to dinner, a very nice dinner with my father, Mr. A’s top of the building, yes. What did you gather from Mr. A’s? Called mixes? A’s mix, and.

 

Alok  29:26

It’s where all the gender queer since San Diego.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  29:30

I don’t think we have a Mrs. A’s.

 

Alok  29:31

Yeah, I’m sorry. I’m gonna do the MX A’s, but if you want to hold down the M essays, I Okay. Deal, that sounded like a gun rights organization and collab we had, we had dinner with your dad, and you made so much sense to me, how so you are like a used car sales person. You can make a pitch for anything. Well, he sells insurance. You can sell anything to me. You can call me and be like, we gotta go to the Caribbean at a 7pm flat. Right, probably Dylan. I’ve got plans, and you’ll be like, imagine yourself on the beach. You just make the pitch or so, or.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  30:07

I make myself sound so sad that you don’t. I’d be like.

 

Alok  30:11

And then like, watching you. Because the thing is, like, I I’m extrovert, assumed, and you are too. But you can actually do that. I can when I’m at a function. I’m like, unless we’re talking about trauma, I don’t go here. I just want to talk about my mommy issues. Otherwise, I don’t give a shit. You, on the other hand, can, like, ping pong to anyone. How’s your life? How’s it going? What’s it going? I’m like, where did you learn that? God. And then I remember that my dad doesn’t say bye on the phone, whereas your dad would literally be like, it was pleasure doing business, and it’s just annoying, because every time I’m like, we can outgrow who our parents wanted us to be, then I’m like, fuck my parents are both nerdy bookworms who are bad at social skills. Why am I the same? Also, this is now a musical episode of the podcast I have to have. I haven’t had dinner with your family yet. I don’t think much speaking would occur. I would be the topic. You’d feel very nervous. Talking, that is, my parents were literally like, why does she talk so much? And because you weren’t saying anything, right?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  31:16

It’s, oh, it’s a tactic. I remember an acting class, like, when you don’t say anything It like makes people nervous, but we talked about events. We’ve been to a lot of events together. We’ve been plus ones for each other, but at Sundance, we had a little bit of a snafu. A snafu is what I would call it, right? Because about, I would say, two days in, we had done about 74 events, yeah, and I didn’t want to keep going to them, and you did.

 

Alok  31:44

The thing is, because you’re so social passing, I forget that you’re actually an introvert. And like, the thing is, like, I’m not an introvert, I’m just a bitch. So there’s different frequencies. I can be at 74 functions, but I just want to be talking about trauma at the 74 functions, right? Whereas you are like, I’m done, I’ve reached, I’ve reached my limit, I can keep going. But then when you turn into a bitch, what I’m just saying is, like, I’m not interested in any of the frivolity. I’m not interested in the small talk. I just want to talk about the meaning of life all every single moment of every single day, all the time. It’s noxious. It’s like, you were also, like, why they invented weed edibles specifically for me to stop talking to people about the meaning of life. Oh, my God, conspiracy. What do you talk about when you’re on the edibles, being high? Oh, great. I like that side view. All I do is say, wow.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  32:32

Well, I’m high.  I do say that. Like, you know, when we entered a friendship, I thought that that meant that, like, I’d pick up the phone and I’d get these, like, incredible, like, inspirational messages from you, but it’s like, Dylan, what the fuck are we wearing and who are we kissing this weekend? So we were having this snafu, and it was a really huge moment of awakening for me, where I realized, like, I too, had misperceived you.

 

Alok  32:56

And the truth is you’re actually need to, like, recharge. Reply, like, to be alone. You love your alone time.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  33:02

I want to take the makeup off.

 

Alok  33:03

And you just there’s no better image for you than eating snacks in your bed. And I’m saying Dylan, take off your makeup and you’re like, No, and then you fall asleep with the makeup on the makeup and the snack mixed into the makeup. So you’ve got, actually, about six different categories of Trader Joe’s hot deleterious for your health, just in your blush, just there, your lashes and falling down tonight, and then for 24 hours, no one hears from you again. Oh, I go off the radar. I don’t like to talk done, but you were kind of the darling of Sundance, and so, like, you really did have to hit all bell of the ball situation. How was that like? Was that like? Was that experience exciting for you? I feel like I’ve never felt more me than in a tight mini, mini skirt, and like, 20 degree weather, just running through Utah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  33:52

Everyone else is in sweatpants, in parkas as they were trying to pass the draconian antenna I had. I actually, famously, I have a scar on my tip because of how many times I taped them together that week, because I was wearing these tiny little corsets in like, we literally two degrees looked.

 

Alok  34:08

Like, Justin Bieber and Haley Bieber. Whenever they’re at different they’re the same event, but in different outfits. Yes, that was us versus the entire we never coordinated. People probably thought we were like Miami, but really we were in like, the tundra, yeah, Utah in it.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  34:22

But I will never, after we just finished all the 700 totinos Pizza Rolls, the only thing we ate that week and then, but it was on Sunday night. We were leaving Monday, and I ripped the last piece of boob tape off, and it was just blood. No, still a scarf there.

 

Alok  34:38

Yeah, hot.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  34:40

But your film.

 

Alok  34:41

I love that you made a compelling cameo. I In the short I had like, three lines. It’s a big deal. It’s your Sundance debut.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  34:49

Thank you.

 

Alok  34:50

Yes, aAlex Hedison, my favorite is when people would ask you in interviews, like, what was the most challenging part about being in the document? Oh, my I’d be like, I showed up.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  34:59

I we were doing the like the carpet line at Sundance, and they were asking me all about the film. Hadn’t seen it yet, and I was there. We did, like, one dinner or something. I was like, it was really easy for me, and I think maybe a little harder for them.

 

Alok  35:13

But this is where I need you to learn how to be less sincere. You could have used us in moment to say, I felt called by higher power to be there. Being in the orbit of a loake made me realize trans people are sacred. You know, yeah, it’s all about tone. I’m not there yet. It’s like whispering.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  35:33

It’s like I had a great time.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  35:35

Oh, this is a great pivot everyone. It’s usually what a girl wants, but today, it’s what a they wants, and I’m actually gonna be a part of that, honoring the she they in my bio.

 

Alok  36:07

Oh.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:07

Hey, they.

 

Alok  36:08

What do we want?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:09

What do you want?

 

Alok  36:10

What do I want in the world?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:11

It could be anything.

 

Alok  36:13

I’ve never been asked that question. How am I supposed to know?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:17

Just think about the song, what a girl wants, what a girl needs? What do you well, that’s different wants and needs two very different things.

 

Alok  36:25

Whoa.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:26

I need a stomach doctor.

 

Alok  36:28

Wow Z.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:29

I want.

 

Alok  36:34

What do I want? I want each person to live the fullest and freest version of themselves.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  36:41

Wow, that’s beautiful. And when you say freest, does that mean, like happy?

 

Alok  36:52

Not necessarily, but joyous? Yeah, Happiness comes and goes, But joy is irrefutable. Do you feel joy today? So much.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  37:00

What was the happiest, joyous day of your life?

 

Alok  37:02

Well, the conflation of those two, I think, is the issue.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  37:05

Okay.

 

Alok  37:06

Joy is an unshakable foundation. It’s my center of gravity. So even if things are bad in my life, there’s still joy, because I’m able to be there and show up. Joy is the opposite of dissociation. I’m feeling the thing. Happiness is pleasant sensation, but it comes and goes. So there are times where I’m joyous even when I’m sad, and there are times when I’m happy and joyous at the same time.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  37:32

Cute, I feel really happy with you right now. I think what I would like for us, a shared want is like two partners that we can take on cruises and to any sort of vacation that we’d want, or that can come on tour with us when we inevitably have, like, a two hander comedy show, maybe on Broadway, but that also really love to hang out the two of them so that we can hang out and we don’t have to worry about them.

 

Alok  38:00

That is never something I ever thought about wanting.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:03

Really?

 

Alok  38:03

Really, that is so far from my realm of imagination I allowed to want it for you. I think that’s actually called oppression. Yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:13

I think it’s time for our next little segment. Are you ready? It’s overshare, don’t care. You know, I’m a fan of oversharing.

 

Alok  38:20

I feel like I’m on, like, a game show I was on. The Price Is Right.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:22

Have you ever been on game show?

 

Alok  38:24

No, it’s actually one of my biggest dreams.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:26

Really?

 

Alok  38:26

Yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:27

Which one?

 

Alok  38:28

Um, Wheel of Fortune.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:29

Okay, you could win that. You’d be, yeah.

 

Alok  38:33

Jeopardy, like, I feel like I would get too much performance anxiety, because  that’s like, my people, like the people who are good at jeopardy, it’s like, I love those people.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:41

What about reality television, Dancing with the Stars?

 

Alok  38:45

No, oh, the masked singer. I would be chopped really early. I think I could do like real world.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  38:50

What if we did a real world with all trans people? That would be crazy, set at a camp, summer camp in the woods, murder.

 

Alok  39:01

Okay, can you go to your next go to your.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:03

Great, yeah. So back to over share. Don’t care. I’m a big fan of oversharing. You have been very open, so I feel strongly about this one for you. I’m just gonna do lightning round of questions. Are you ready?

 

Alok  39:16

I think so.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:17

Okay, favorite era?

 

Alok  39:20

In history or in my life?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:22

Favorite era?

 

Alok  39:24

Taylor Swift era. I love the new album. I really do. I love it. I’m gonna say that.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:29

Favorite fruit?

 

Alok  39:31

Mangoes.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:31

Least favorite fruit?

 

Alok  39:33

Pomegranates.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:34

Favorite season?

 

Alok  39:35

Spring.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:36

Favorite European city.

 

Alok  39:38

Oh, Amsterdam.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:41

Favorite piece of queer pop culture?

 

Alok  39:43

Chapel Rowan.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:44

Ah., how often do you cry?

 

Alok  39:47

Not enough.

 

Alok  39:48

Favorite holiday?

 

Alok  39:50

Holidays that are secular, but kind of Christmas in camp disguise.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:55

Dream date?

 

Alok  39:57

On a podcast with you.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  39:59

Hobby you’d like to take up?

 

Alok  40:01

Knitting.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  40:02

What are you most scared of trying?

 

Alok  40:05

Musicals.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  40:09

Wow.

 

Alok  40:11

So that was really stressful.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  40:13

That was really well executed. I was not sad about the Taylor Swift of it all. Do you think we did Taylor Swift on the Dylan Hour.

 

Alok  40:22

I would be so I’ve never actually felt proud of you, but if you were to do that, maybe you could earn my love.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  40:29

Can you imagine if, like, we really like Taylor saw this, and she was like, damn, I want them to be close. And she was like, she wanted to heal the trans and non binary divine. It’s, it’s, right, it’s on that couch right there. Um, but more so era, like, think about passion. Oh, so we’re going back to the question now, yeah, I just wanted you to, like, kind of like, check in on that, because I don’t really place you ever in a specific era.

 

Alok  40:54

No, I think the joy of being queer is that all these categories are suggestions.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  41:00

So are you saying that my affinity for 1960s clothing is anti queer?

 

Alok  41:04

Tea, what I’m saying is that, like, you can draw inspo from everything in time travel, fashion.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  41:12

So you don’t need to pick one.

 

Alok  41:13

No, this idea of having to pick when people was like, this or this or pick, I’m like, why can’t we have it all period? Okay? We we now both love chapel Rowan. I wish that people would sometimes say comma, comma. You know, not all sentences need to finish comma.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  41:29

There you go. Thank you. Then it’s a run on sentence.

 

Alok  41:33

That’s what it means to be alive.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  41:34

And then you say period.

 

Alok  41:36

I feel like the sentence keeps going, and then you die. So maybe, like, the tombstone, could just have a period on it.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  41:41

Well, that’s, I say, like we’re still in a prayer and or if, like.

 

Alok  41:46

If you’re getting cremated, we could find a way to, like, print a period and put it with the body as it’s being burned.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  41:51

Is that? How is that? You telling me how you want to be buried? I’m still thinking about that I’m queer and questioning around that I want to be in a tree like I want to be down there with I want my body, not in a coffin or anything, just to go into the dirt or a Bora. Bora. I didn’t write this down anywhere. So this is actually my last testament. I’m dying. Um, you get all my clothes, but then disperse them to the people we like. I don’t really know.

 

Alok  42:15

If I want. I’ll take your purses.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  42:19

That was dark. I do you hate my outfits?

 

Alok  42:22

No, I like them. But it’s just like, I don’t know if we wear the same things, you know? Because often you give me fat I like your clothes. And I’m like.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  42:33

Are you serious? I told you to wear that dress?

 

Alok  42:36

Yeah, but would you wear this dress?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  42:38

Yeah.

 

Alok  42:39

No, never, yes.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  42:41

Why?

 

Alok  42:41

Never.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  42:41

If I was going to a Christmas party with a big ass bow in my hair, like.

 

Alok  42:45

In the Power Puff girl trio, you’re awesome. You’re blossom. I’m the black hair.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  42:53

No, um, Buttercup. And then I’m bubbles actually.

 

Alok  42:56

You’re bubbles? Yeah, I’m Buttercup, so it’s just like, we have different vibes.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  43:01

You don’t want my chunky knit.

 

Alok  43:03

Not particularly okay, but.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  43:04

Maybe just like, I don’t feel the need, I don’t feel good shadow box it.

 

Alok  43:07

I don’t feel the need to, like, shame you. I’m just saying, What do you want of my stuff when I’m dead? Your lamp collection.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  43:19

Really?

 

Alok  43:19

Yeah, I think I would like, are we talking about what you want when I die? Yeah. How did we get here? I don’t know that’s coping with the political situation trans people are under in this moment.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  43:30

Famously, yeah that is what we always talk about before we go to bed. Where I every time I’m like, thinking like, I’m like, five years from now, and it looks like, I don’t know what this is gonna look like in five years. Like why are you planning for five years from now? We need to be talking about tomorrow.

 

Alok  43:45

Exactly.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  43:46

You’ve given me a lot of advice over the years. How about answering a little advice for one of my listeners, are you down?

 

Alok  43:52

I’m so down.

 

Sender 1  43:55

Hello, honey. Dear Dylan, this is Madison. Lately I’ve been struggling with a constant worry about people liking me. I recently started my own business, and I’m wondering how to create boundaries, be a boss Babe and stand firm in my opinions and convictions without constantly worrying about needing to seem nice or sweet. I know I’m a good person, but I fear that if someone disagrees with me, or if I have an opinion about something, it makes me a bad person help.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  44:20

Madison, I may not be your girl, because I think I call I think I’m Madison. I think I picked up the phone and I just left that voicemail for myself, Alok?

 

Alok  44:29

No, try.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  44:34

Okay, I will say that I have gotten better with letting go of what other people think of me by first going to like as I don’t totally recommend having to lean on other people for support, but in those really tricky moments where you can’t find the good in yourself, going to the people that you truly love and that truly love you so much, and just having a check in and being. Like, I’m am I this thing that people are perceiving me as or, you know, can you tell that I’m putting something on like, I love being called out by my friends on like they were like, what are you doing? What are you saying? That’s not who you are. So I do think having those few people that you can turn to when you need

 

Alok  45:18

What I would say, Madison is, you’re not for everyone, and you have to trust divine filtration. The more you you are, the more you’re going to magnetize the people who are interested in what you have to offer. And for every person who’s a naysayer, there’s going to be three more that are signing up for you. So rather than focusing on the losses, see them as clearing space for the people you needed in your court all along.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  45:43

Who are the people that are like that are typically drawn to you? Like, what kind of people do you bring in?

 

Alok  45:50

Water signs.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  45:51

Oh, yeah.

 

Alok  45:53

Deeply felt.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  45:53

Yeah. I bring in moms.

 

Alok  45:55

Wow.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  45:56

Yeah, I have a big I love moms. I haven’t met your mom yet, and once again.

 

Alok  46:00

I’m just not really sure you would communicate.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  46:02

I think we’d get there.

 

Alok  46:03

Maybe, if you, like, sat next to each other in red.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  46:06

Oh, we could go see a musical. You we could go see your opening night on Broadway.

 

Alok  46:11

I think my mom would literally be so embarrassed at how bad I was. She would just be like, hiding in the bathroom. I feel like, can you believe that’s your child? She’d be like, No, I can’t intermission. Yeah, booked it out. Speaking of her exit interviews, she’s leaving my musical. She’s like, I’m done with this shit. This gig is over, chopping me change last name, going to the family tree and just snapping a branch.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  46:31

Family tree. It’s time for blast from the past. We have a photo that we found online of you, and it is this one right here. Yes, give us a little context.

 

Alok  46:43

Okay, so I remember getting that pink or and literally being like, so into it. I would wear it all the time. And I’m sitting there and my childhood home in College Station Texas, next to my older sister, Olga, and I think that’s like a little party we were having. I think it might have been one of her birthday parties. Cute. Yeah, are you still close? I need to apologize to her publicly, because during her birthdays, I felt like I was in the center of attention. So I would make my parents write Happy Birthday Elka and a Loke on her birthday cakes. No, oh, or like, give me a separate cake on her birthday, my half birthday, and I feel like that was really messed up of me, and like there’s not a enough apologies I can have for how rude I was at five to do that.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  47:33

Is it like, has she never invited you to, like, an adult birthday party?

 

Alok  47:36

Because she’s a real she’s a real trooper, she’s been through a lot, and she shows up.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  47:41

What’s your relationship to birthdays?

 

Alok  47:43

I love a good birthday. Okay, what I do on birthdays is I, I bring people around and I make them compliment me. And if they don’t do it in an articulate, interesting or insightful way, I give that feedback and ask them to do a draft too.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  47:58

Okay, yeah, should I give you a compliment right now? No, that’s my birthday. Let’s talk really quick. Yeah, la versus New York. What are your thoughts?

 

Alok  48:09

I’m an unapologetic and flagrant New York supremacist, and LA is cosplaying as a city, and it’s like if small talk was diffused across millions of people. That would be it. It’s like the good place, equal parts gorgeous and dystopic. It’s like every moment I have to remind myself, this is not how.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  48:30

That was like more offensive than calling me a man. This is my town, and I love it.

 

Alok  48:35

What does that say about you? I want personality. I want people who have struggle and emotional baggage.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  48:40

I’m shooting right here.

 

Alok  48:41

I want people like seasons built character. You know, when it’s cold outside, what are you gonna do talk about boring things?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  48:51

No.

 

Alok  48:52

You’re gonna talk about what?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  48:54

Trauma, but you don’t end up talking because you’re in your bed alone under the numbers.

 

Alok  49:00

That’s LA, where everyone’s separated from each other, and the most diverse area is a highway where you can’t even talk to people unless you’re screaming at each other.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  49:07

Well, and it’s a little convenient when your friends live in your building.

 

Alok  49:10

Why did you want to bring up the most politically controversial opinions that I have.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  49:14

About LA versus New York?

 

Alok  49:15

It’s just I get really supremacist when it comes to this, and it’s not okay. I need to have more love and grace and accept that there are different frequencies for different people. I different people. I get that you wanted this show my body, just to show the worst parts of yourself. Wow, I feel like you’ve done a good job.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  49:30

Thank you.

 

Alok  49:31

Thank you so much.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  49:32

The birthday cake thing still kills me.

 

Alok  49:34

It was I love sheet cake, and I still to this day order people have a birthday like, get the nice bakery. Now I go to, like, the local grocery store and I.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  49:44

How do you feel about ice cream cakes? Love Cold Stone. That’s my birthday cake order. Is the birthday cake remix.

 

Alok  49:51

Who you think came up with ice cream cakes?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  49:52

Someone that I would totally kiss. How long ago do you think that was?

 

Alok  49:57

That sounds like an era related question, which we. Speaking of Taylor, and I don’t want to go there now we can pivot to the part where I’m like grilling you. You know, I feel like this podcast comes an interesting point in your career, in your life, where you’ve been under so much scrutiny for so long, and now it’s like you showing the world who you really are outside of who other people say that you are. How does that feel?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  50:19

I think it’s another place for me to put my foot in my mouth, and a new way to connect with people and like, show them other parts of myself. I think that I love to talk more than anything, and I love to talk to my friends, and I think that so many very conservative people have podcasts that I thought it was time that we throw a few more trans people in the ring.

 

Alok  50:44

I’m not really sure that there’s like, more of a dystopia than a conservative podcast. Like those two words together are something.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  50:50

I think we’ve been on a few without our knowledge. Really, I’ve made so many guest cameos, I had no idea. Yeah, you and you’ve, you’ve been on those for a long time. A lot, a long time. How long has this career been for you now? What’s left to do, other than the Broadway musical? Oh, like, like, professionally any Yeah, what do you want to try?

 

Alok  51:09

I’d love to be a dramatic actress, you know, just like no jokes, just like embodied crying. And then I’d love to, like, go across the world and lecture people on my method and act very serious about it, and say extremely far fetched things, like, in order to get in character, I immerse myself in mango nectar baths. Oh, and then people are doing mango nectar baths in order to, like, get because of you.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  51:34

That sounds like a cult.

 

Alok  51:36

It’s just an acting, just for actors.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  51:38

It’s just for actors.

 

Alok  51:39

It’s a method.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  51:40

Have you ever found yourself in a cult?

 

Alok  51:42

I mean, we’re all in cult, yeah.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  51:45

Yeah, I would be the first one to join. I wanted to be a Mormon for a while there, and while you were touring, while I was in Book of Mormon, yeah, because they were so nice and they’re so hot, and they’re all like dentists, and I love keeping up with my teeth.

 

Alok  51:59

But you don’t go to doctors. B do go to dentist?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:02

As an adult? Yes, I love a dentist because they also do Botox. In Utah.

 

Alok  52:06

The dentist do Botox?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:08

Yes see, this is our dynamic. I teach you things that you teach. No idea that’s incredible. Yes, and they’re both, they’re all hot, great teeth. Would you ever get veneers? I don’t think we should.

 

Alok  52:20

I haven’t thought about that.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:21

I don’t think you need them.

 

Alok  52:23

Thank you. Would you let me know if I did?

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:25

Um, well, in the way that maybe, no, I wouldn’t. I don’t. Yeah, exactly. But also, you got a beautiful smile. The way that maybe you tell people that you don’t like their partners is maybe the way that I should start telling people if they need veneers or not.

 

Alok  52:39

Wow.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:39

I don’t think so.

 

Alok  52:40

You know, compassionate, courageous, to be honest.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:45

Fuck, I think it’s about time take your last sips. Do you need a ride home?

 

Alok  52:50

Okay, yeah, okay. Go down. Yeah, okay.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  52:55

Hey everyone, it’s been a release.

 

Alok  52:57

That was the final video footage of Dylan Mulvaney before she passed away.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  53:02

Well, at least we know that I want to be buried in a tree and or sprinkled and sprinkled all where my clothing is going, and we do know where it’s going. You want my lamps? Where’s retirement home? You think I have grandma clothes as I’m wearing a grandma dress? I’m also sad, because I feel like the way we should have ended this episode is with for good from Wicked, you being Elphaba, meeting Linda and everyone’s wrapping up.

 

Alok  53:27

The electricity is about to be cut out.

 

Dylan Mulvaney  53:31

Okay, yeah I have been changed for good. Drink your juice shall be.

 

Lemonada  53:41

Want even more of the Dylan Hour? Now is a great time to subscribe to Lemonada Premium. You’ll get bonus content, outtakes and more from conversations with fabulous guests like Joe Locke and Dylan’s dad, Jim Mulvaney. Just hit the subscribe button on Apple podcasts, or for all other podcast apps, head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe. That’s  lemonadapremium.com.

 

CREDITS  54:01

The Dylan Hour is a production of Lemonada Media. Our supervising producer is Jess […]. Producers are Carmen Laura,Kegan Zema and Aria Bracci. Audio and video production and engineering by Jordan Lynn, Ivan Kuraev and Brian Castillo. Our SVP of weekly programming is Steve Nelson. Our theme song was composed by Daniel Mertzloft and arranged by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Megan Strickland. Executive producers, Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, Katherine Law and Dylan Mulvaney. You can find us online @lemonadamedia, and you can find Dylan on Tiktok and Instagram @DylanMulvaney. Follow The Dylan Hour wherever you get your podcasts, or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.