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Putting your job before your health? In this economy? No, baby. What you actually want is love, security, safety and personal fulfillment. Amina AlTai is a holistic career coach extraordinaire, and she’s here to help us figure out how to live with work, not for it. After overworking herself and developing two chronic illnesses, Amina had to stop and reevaluate WTF she was doing. She was killing herself for her job – and for what? She shares her lessons learned and how we can identify signs of burnout in our bodies. Plus, why quiet quitting can be an effective strategy to reclaim your personal time.

This series was created in partnership with Flourish Ventures, an early-stage global investment firm backing mission-driven entrepreneurs and industry influencers working toward a fair financial system for all. Learn more at flourishventures.com.

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You can find Amina @aminaaltai on Instagram.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Amina Altai, X Mayo

X Mayo  00:05

Welcome back to The Dough, where we teach you how to set boundaries with your boss. When 6pm rolls around, do not disturb. We’ll be on. You got that? Okay good. I’m your host, X Mayo, I’m a survivor. I’m not gonna give okay, we don’t have the clearance for that, but I am a survivor of the girl boss era my millennial babies, honey, they will remember it was the time of pink suits and leaning in. But listen, is it really gender equality if you’re being just as overworked as a man? I don’t think so, honey. Our guest today is not here to gaslight gatekeep and girl boss, but she is a baddie all the same. Amina Altai is a holistic business and career coach. Amna is here to tell you that your career does not come before your health. She’s helped women who have fallen victim to the girl boss mentality. Figure out how to lead careers and lives that are meaningful to them. Amina has worked with companies like Google. Ever heard Okay, Deloitte and Roku, and she knows it doesn’t get easier for women once we get to the top after overworking herself and developing two chronic illnesses, Amina had to step back and re evaluate her relationship with work. Today, she helps people tap into their true talents in a world that wants you to keep laboring no matter what, she hosts the podcast, I’m gonna change your life. Okay, see what she did there, she’s also comedian, yes, she is also the author of the book The ambition trap, oh drag me how to stop chasing and start living, which hits the shelves in May. Amina, welcome to The Dough.

 

Amina Altai  03:26

Hi, Thank you so much for having me.

 

X Mayo  03:28

Yes, okay, so I like to get into my guest business. Up top right, we’re just gonna get into it. What is something you spent money on recently that brought you joy?

 

Amina Altai  03:38

Oh, that brought me joy. Well, actually, I’m gonna say something that brought me catharsis. Because that also

 

X Mayo  03:43

What word does that mean? I went to public school when I had one semester of college.

 

Amina Altai  03:48

I also, I also went to public school period. Shout out to public school.

 

X Mayo  03:51

The best.

 

Amina Altai  03:52

Yes, so, like, brought me a big release, I was dealing with something like was just making me feel really funky. So I went to this place called the rage cage, where you it’s literally a room where they line up all these things, and you take a bat and you just break them. And it was the best experience, because anger and rage was living in my body, and I needed it not to. And I left, and I was like, this was the right thing to do.

 

X Mayo  04:15

You know, I wish they had that back in 2002 not that I did that to anyone’s car. I’m not saying that you know, not that you know I had to execute and took another bitch to prom. But, um, I it’s, uh, it’s great. It’s great that that exists. I love that, Alva, I love that that that brought you what’s the word of the day? Catharticism. Catharsis or catharsis? Yeah, catharsis them. So I want to get into your your background. So what did your parents teach you about money growing up?

 

Amina Altai  04:43

So I learned a lot about money from watching my parents, and it wasn’t always the best stuff, so I had to do a whole lot of rewiring. So family of immigrants. My dad is Iraqi, and like, fled Baghdad during a time of a lot of turmoil. My mom is Welsh, and came from like, a coal mining family and didn’t have a lot of money. And. So in my house, growing up, money was like, really up and down. So I learned that sometimes you have it, sometimes you don’t. Money can be scary, that it causes a lot of tension, a lot of fighting. And so when I started my career, those were kind of the thoughts that I had playing in the background funny story. So when I was applying to college, my dad wanted all of us to be doctors, and I was like, I don’t really like the hospital environment, like, there’s not a lot of windows. And my dad was like, Who is this child? I don’t understand. And then I applied for business program, and I got in early decision to, like, a great school. And my dad was so upset, and he called his family, and he was lamenting about how I got into this business program, which is, like, one of the best in the country. But anyway, because in Baghdad, where he was from, there’s a ranking system so the smartest people get to be engineers, then doctors, then teachers, and at the very bottom of the barrel is business people. So his family was like, oh my god, I’m so sorry. We didn’t realize that Amina wasn’t smart.

 

X Mayo  05:55

Oh, I love that. If business people is like, she want to be a thug, why does she want to be what’s at the bottom of the barrel. Excuse me, she wants to be in business. Wow, how did you raise her? Was she raised by wolves?

 

Amina Altai  06:07

Exactly really. We’re so sorry for you. We thought she was smart.

 

X Mayo  06:11

I love that. I appreciate that, though. I love that that’s at the bottom. That’s kind of like at Sweden. In Sweden, my friend in Sweden, I’m like, when your child wants to be a teacher, it’s like, President, like, she’s gonna be a teacher. And I’m just like, oh my god, take me to tweet it.

 

Amina Altai  06:27

Exactly, that is actually God’s work. Being a teacher is God’s […]

 

X Mayo  06:31

Honey, I ain’t got no kids. You hear that, listen to that silence, baby. I don’t play with that.

 

Amina Altai  06:37

Same here, I can’t motherhood instead of motherhood is what I period.

 

X Mayo  06:41

So you learned about money. What’s like the number one, uh, money lesson you learned from them growing up by watching them with money.

 

Amina Altai  06:48

That money causes conflict. And I had to really rewrite that script clock. It okay. What’s an example of that? My parents used to fight about money all the time. And so I was like, oh, money just equals drama and fighting, so I guess better not have any. So even though, when I started my career, I was with a group of people that sort of really knew their worth, and so they were asking for a certain salary. So I was like, okay, cool, I’ll do the same. But because I had that subconscious belief of money causes conflict on an unconscious level, I was just moving it out of my area, right? So I’d like spend too much, or I’d give it away. Because I was like, money causes conflict better not have any. And so it took me a long time to really shift that story.

 

X Mayo  07:25

Okay? And when did that story shift for you?

 

Amina Altai  07:27

I think my late 20s, early 30s. So actually, how I became a coach was I started my career in marketing and brand management, and I had worked in house at a luxury jewelry company, and then I went on to start my own marketing agency where I was working with emerging female entrepreneurs, helping them build their brands and businesses, which was so fun, but child of immigrants, deeply co dependent, no boundaries, and I burned out, and I developed two autoimmune diseases, and it happened like very dramatically, where, yeah, but I had been to like seven different doctors, each one gaslit me. Then I finally found a woman of color, and she called me one day after a series of tests, and she was like, hey, listen, if you don’t go to the hospital now, instead of going to work, you’re days away from multiple organ failure. And so I really had to get my stuff together. And so it was at that point where I was like, okay, clearly I have been living in a way that is not serving me. And so I went on what I call my eat, Pray, love year, where I went back to school to, like, study, coaching, nutrition, mindfulness, just like all the tools to kind of feel better in my life. And when I did, I realized that I’d been kind of living by all these stories that weren’t really mine, about what success looked like, about how much you work, about how you show up, about money. And so it was kind of that first stint in coaching that really had me look at all of my scripts, and that was like when my Saturn returned around 28 so that’s, that’s when it started. Yeah, returned real hard.

 

X Mayo  08:48

So are you telling me this autoimmune disease was incited by, by what? By stress, by, like, a proper, like, work life balance, what caused it?

 

Amina Altai  08:57

So I never want to, like, reduce it to one thing, because I think that sort of oversimplifying it. I think there’s a lot of complexity there. But for me, and in my experience, first of all, like my genetics, I’m just more predisposed. It runs in my family, okay, but what we know is that stress can absolutely exacerbate it and cause that gene expression. And so I think that that was true for me. I was just wildly stressed. I had no boundaries around work. I was like burning the candle at both ends. I had all these stories about, you have to be the first one in the last one out. You know, like as an immigrant, right? You have to be the hardest working person in the room. That’s where your value is, honey, yeah. And until I realized, oh, this is killing me, and I have to really change all these stories.

 

X Mayo  09:37

Did you feel like you were able to communicate to your manager how stressed out you were.

 

Amina Altai  09:41

So at that point, I had co founded the agency, so this was a mess of my own making. So I needed to confide that to myself. And so that.

 

X Mayo  09:51

Did you talk to yourself? Did you say, Hey, I’m gonna what girl I need that go.

 

Amina Altai  09:58

I think that’s like, almost. Worse, right? It’s like, I need this mess. I don’t have anybody to blame but me.

 

X Mayo  10:04

Yes, am I the drama? Is it me? And in your body’s like, Yes, girl, the call is coming from inside the house.

 

Amina Altai  10:11

You are the problem.  I remember saying to like, my therapist at the time of like, oh, maybe I should just like, move to the woods. And she was like, Who are you kidding? You would move to the woods and make yourself the mayor of the woods. Right. Everywhere you go, there you are.

 

X Mayo  10:24

I was like, Do you know I’m gonna got a whole wood business? Yeah, she’s selling it to all of California. I said exactly. And speaking of like bodies and like, knowing when we’re being overworked, what were the signs and symptoms? Because I would love for some of the people you know to kind of clock that whenever they’re feeling that, like, oh, okay, I’m gonna, did mention that that was kind of a thing. Let me just get a little more data on that.

 

Amina Altai  10:47

Yeah, I love that. I think it’s different for all of us. But one of the things I would really invite people to do is, like, listen to the whispers, because I didn’t, and I waited for the shouts, and the shouts hit harder, right? So there were lots of symptoms, like I had extreme fatigue, so I’m Arab and I have, like, a lot of hair everywhere, you know. So I’ve spent a lot of money on laser and really try to maintain the head hair. But when I was sick, and before I was diagnosed, it just like clumps of hair at the bottom of the drain, I had this, like, big false it was real. I was real upset about it. And so, yeah, the fatigue, brain fog, hair loss, and one by one, it was each thing was kind of explainable, but when they came together, it just felt sort of like really dramatic and intense. But I work with a lot of people now that have burnout, and how that manifests for them, it’s kind of different for everybody, right? So there may be physical symptoms, like I had, there could be emotional symptoms, right? Sometimes we feel really distant from our work and like we have trouble getting started. Sometimes we feel like even people that we used to love spending time with, like our colleagues or our clients, we feel kind of like an extreme negativism or cynicism towards them. And so don’t just look out for the physical symptoms, but the emotional ones too, because they all tell a story. They’re all trying to tell us something. And if you can listen to the whispers and not wait for the shouts, bless you. I think that will serve you.

 

X Mayo  12:03

Yeah? I think too, it’s such a conundrum, because I know that we can potentially hear the whispers, but we have no money no, Amna and so it’s like, it’s kind of a luxury to take a pause for some people you know, for most people, you know, 100% I would love to know. Like, what would a person do when they hear the whispers they may not have the right access to the health care, or may not have the the luxury of a job that will let them, you know, maybe take a few days off or something like that. Like, what could people do that, maybe don’t have those resources that are hearing the whispers and they need to do something, but they’re just scared about the potential consequences, and they need money.

 

Amina Altai  12:51

Yeah, I really love that you brought this up, because it is absolutely a form of privilege to be able to, like, take time off, to stop completely. It’s not available to most people, and back when that happened for me, I like, maxed out my credit cards, to be able to kind of do all these tests and things and like, even to be able to have a credit card right, not available to anybody. That’s a form of privilege and so well, first of all, you know, insurance companies, tricky, tricky business. Some of them these days, some of them these days, will cover our therapy. Some of them will will cover, you know, clinics in our neighborhood too. So really, if you have insurance, see how you can really maximize it. So you’re not paying out of pocket for things. Because I know a lot of people are paying out of pocket for therapy, paying out of pocket for acupuncture. And actually, a lot of the times, our insurance companies will cover these things. And so do as much research as you can about what is available through your insurance. If you have insurance, the second thing is, is as if you can’t take time off, which is not available to most people, where can we set boundaries? So a lot of the times, we’re indoctrinated to over give right to so many of us, our worth has been questioned our whole life, especially historically excluded people. So we feel like, well, my worth is tied to my output. So let me keep outputting. So I really invite people to really think about the boundaries of where are you saying yes? But maybe we could say a no if we’re saying yes to things, can we think about trade offs? So if I say yes to this, I have to be really honest that I have to say no to this. So where can we start to kind of create a bit more harmony, where we’re not over giving to the detriment, and we’re carving out little pockets for ourselves as well. The boundaries are really important. Prentice Hemphill has this beautiful quote on boundaries where they say, boundaries are the distance at which I can love you and me simultaneously. And I think in a work context, it’s like the distance at which I can honor you and me at the same time. And we should be honoring you and me at the same time. No one should be honored above another. We’re all in service to each other. And so where are you? Maybe not honoring yourself in the same way? And can we create a bit more evenness there?

 

X Mayo  14:58

Okay, so I want to get into the impact of like work and how it causes stress on the body. How do you think you approach career coaching differently based on your experience with burnout and stress?

 

Amina Altai  17:52

Yes, and I also think identity is really important in this conversation too so.

 

X Mayo  17:56

So we’re going to get into that.

 

Amina Altai  17:58

Okay, great.

 

X Mayo  17:58

Women, yes.

 

Amina Altai  18:00

Great, so because of my own experience, what I recognized is that we aren’t we’re not two separate people, right? We’re not like work Amina and life. Amina, I’m one.

 

X Mayo  18:10

Hello, severance. Okay, watch it.

 

Amina Altai  18:13

Exactly, and so we have to think about our wellness in the context of our work. We have to think about mindset and nervous system in the context of our work, and we have to think about the specific strategies and tactics we use to support our careers. And I also think it’s super important that we think about our identities in the context of our work, because as women, people of color, the LGBTQIA plus community, as historically excluded people, we obviously experience systemic oppression, and that shows up in different ways in the workplace, and we can’t discount the impact that that has on our minds and our bodies, and so we have to think about all of that in the work conversation.

 

X Mayo  18:46

And what are some of the biggest challenges your clients have?

 

Amina Altai  18:49

If I had to boil it down, I think it’s a question of worthiness.

 

X Mayo  18:53

Whoa. There it is.

 

Amina Altai  18:55

Worthiness, yeah. 97% of my practice identify as women. 60% identify as women of color, and they also occupy other intersections, and so historically excluded people, and when the world perpetually mirrors back that you are quote, unquote, not as good, or that you have to fight to have your seat at the table or your space, it’s it can be really challenging not to internalize that bias. And so a lot of the work and stories and scripts that I see with my clients is that internalized bias, and that was true for me too. I did not feel like I belonged, didn’t feel worthy, didn’t feel like people looked like me. Could get a space there, and so we have to really rewrite those stories, because there’s also a physical impact of that, right, like, like my autoimmune expression, and at a nervous system level, if we’re constantly in the space if I don’t belong, this space is a threat. And in many, many cases, the space is actually a threat. When our nervous system stays in a prolonged state of dysregulation, it can express disease.

 

X Mayo  19:51

And labor is can be, you know, very gendered, right? Like when it comes to women, you know, we’re working. Inside the home. Then we come outside the home, we’re doing our job, and then we go back inside, we’re taking care of other people, and then also too, like if you are a woman in a family, if you have siblings, if you’re the oldest. So how do you help women? How do you help us set boundaries?

 

Amina Altai  20:19

I think what’s most important is understanding what’s getting in the way from a mindset and nervous system level of upholding those boundaries. So part of the story that I used to tell myself is, if I’m not in service all the time, I’m not worthy, right? My worth is tied to my output. So if I set a boundary, my worth is tied to my output.

 

X Mayo  20:36

Wait, Amina, if my work is tied to me being of service. Do you think then sometimes we could, on a subconscious level, just be looking for people to serve?

 

Amina Altai  20:46

100%

 

X Mayo  20:47

Even when we’re burnt out, right, like even when we know that we should be sitting down, but if our identity is like tied up, tangled up and wrote into being caretaker, maybe on a subconscious level, we’re looking for people to take care of 100%

 

Amina Altai  21:01

How do you think I ended up in this? Ended up in this helper profession?

 

X Mayo  21:05

Also, this is my job, exactly.

 

Amina Altai  21:07

So one of the things that I learned very early on too. So I come from two collectivist cultures, right? Welsh and Iraqi. And in collectivist cultures, we really prioritize a community, which is a beautiful thing, right? And we also really respect our elders. But what I also learned is that collectivism can be adjacent and very close to codependency, and for me, it actually tipped into codependency, where I’m prioritizing the caretaking of others over myself, to my own detriment, and to the point that I look for ways to support and take care of other people to deprioritize myself, and that I see with a lot of my clients too, especially women, especially women, the ones that identify as male, that come into my practice are usually ones that are also from collectivist cultures, navigating that CO dependent line. It’s very interesting.

 

X Mayo  21:50

Okay, so there is another thing Amina, that people have been like talking about. It’s like this little buzz words, quiet, quitting, right? What is when people are sick of their jobs. But, you know, they need the paycheck, they start, like, quietly, like, doing less and less, kind of, like my ex, and it’s like, you kind of clocked out. Kind of you kind of clock out mentally, um, I want to know, like, I’m gonna have you ever quiet, quit? Did you ever do that?

 

Amina Altai  22:18

I’m not wired that way.

 

X Mayo  22:21

I wish I could be a slacker. Oh, my God. Oh, life would be so much easier. I just didn’t give a shit. But I, I’m at McDonald’s. I’m gonna be number one for our Employee of the Month every month.

 

Amina Altai  22:34

I see you, I feel you, I am you.

 

X Mayo  22:37

Yes, okay, so you’ve never done that. Okay, what do you make of this phenomenon though?

 

Amina Altai  22:43

I actually think it’s super smart, like bless Gen Z for coming up with this idea. Because, oh yeah, I actually think it’s a euphemism for energy management and boundaries, which we should all be on the court with. So people are saying, hey, work actually isn’t giving me enough to get all of myself, which is appropriate, right? Work shouldn’t get all of us. And so people are saying, you know, what I think is commensurate with this salary, is this amount, so I’m going to give that and no more, and then I’m going to save some energy for the people that I love, for my community, for my hobbies. And I think that that is super smart and amazing. And I’ve had to do a lot of work around my shame and over giving and codependency and boundaries and all the things to get to a place where I feel like I can do a tiny bit of that. And so, for example, in my I run my own business, but in my business, like for January and February of this year, I’ve actually condensed my schedule to three and a half days a week, because I noticed that I was overworking in the fall, tipping into a bit of that burnout. And so I needed to kind of recalibrate. And so it gets a little different when we work for ourselves. But I actually love the idea of quiet quitting. And I think it’s super smart. I think that it gets a bad rap, because all it really is, is boundaries and energy management and that stuff is really important.

 

X Mayo  23:48

Yeah,  I think too, like a lot of these places, I mean, you could die and that that within an hour, they were like, Okay, anybody want a job? You know, like, they really don’t give a fuck. To me, like you said, it feels like people are trying to regain power over their own time with quiet quitting, right? And so correct me if I’m wrong. But do you, based on your response, do you think that it’s a effective strategy to get your life back from your job? I feel like, yeah.

 

Amina Altai  24:17

Right, yeah so I actually believe there’s no right or wrong way to career. Some people, and I’m one of these people, want work to feel really purpose aligned, right? I like I spend more time at work than I do anywhere else. I want it to feel like I’m using my gifts and I’m doing my contribution for the world. And some people, the role of work is to get the paycheck to clock in, clock out, so they have the money so they could pay for their family. They could go hopefully on vacation, like it’s just a job and there’s no right or wrong way to career. So that’s a beautiful thing. So if you feel that way, and you feel like your job has been extractive and exploitative, and you’re done with that, then, yeah, amazing. Quiet, quit. Manage your energy, set the boundaries, because it doesn’t deserve to be so extractive, and get all of you.

 

X Mayo  24:56

No, it doesn’t. And then also, like, once you give all your all time. Them, and then you’re depleted. It’s what like you have to realize, like you are number 6708, on the assembly line. So I read this stat.

 

Amina Altai  25:07

I think it was from 2016 but it was 745,000 people around the world died from overwork that year, and it was related to heart disease and stroke as a result of overworking. And so we have to be really conscious of how much we are giving. And I think it requires integrity on both sides. Because sometimes I think when we think about integrity, we’re like, oh, integrity to the employer, like, I have to show up and do this job, but no also integrity to yourself. You have to take care of yourself, you have to manage your energy, you have to make sure you’re okay. Integrity works both ways, and so when we’re in that conversation of they pay me a certain amount, I gotta do this thing, but you also owe it to yourself.

 

X Mayo  25:46

And I have to get into your new book. Clap it up. Clap it the freak up. It’s called The Ambition Trap. Whoa, drag me. Drag me, how to Stop chasing and start living. It comes out on May 13, and we’re gonna sell it out, right? But I’d love to give our listeners, you know, a little sneak peek, because you call this the anti hustle Guide, which made me be like, my pearls, like, wait, no, we have to hustle. And I was like, okay, this is why I have to read. She’s talking to me. Um, it’s the anti hustle guide to getting what you want. And you say that what most of us really want isn’t money or accolades drag us, but what we want is accepted, security and belonging. Whoo, wow. It just triggered a lot of childhood issues there. Why do you think it’s so hard for us to figure out what we really want for ourselves?

 

Amina Altai  27:48

Because we live in a world that where we’re indoctrinated to believe that the more money, the more external validators, the more worthy we are, right? And it’s not the truth. We absolutely need money, and especially as historically excluded people, like, we deserve to have our dollars for reparations alone, right? We deserve to have the money that we want. But when it’s destroying us or destroying other people, that’s where it gets to be tricky business. And so in the book, what I’m talking about is that there’s two types of ambition. I call it painful ambition when it’s coming from a core wound, like, if we have a wound of rejection, abandonment, humiliation, betrayal, injustice, and it’s driving our desire for more, and then the invitation is to pivot into purposeful ambition, which is connected to our why, but I also talk about it in the context of the systems that we operate in, right? So hustle is a really interesting one, right? So so many historically excluded people are indoctrinated to believe that they have to hustle, right? Malcolm X, in his autobiography, said, in the 60s, everybody in Harlem needed some kind of hustle to survive, because of redlining, because of segregation, everything, right?

 

X Mayo  28:49

You just systemic racism, yeah, patriarchy, yeah.

 

Amina Altai  28:52

Exactly, all the isms. And so we live in a world where it’s really uneven, and sometimes we have to work extra. Sometimes we have to, you know, twist ourselves into a pretzel to get the thing, but I really want us as a collective to shift out of that, to ask for more together, and to allow that more to come from a place of wholeness, versus turning ourselves inside out or hurting other people to get what we need to survive.

 

X Mayo  29:15

It’s such a layered thing, because I’m just kind of like just even now, to to get what you need, like, you have to have a side hustle, which is why the Tiktok band was, like, so terrifying, because to know so many people were supplementing their income. And it’s not like they didn’t have good jobs, it’s not like they didn’t have secure jobs, it’s like it’s not enough. And these people are not, you know, I don’t know, the claim to know every single one of them. I know a lot of them were not out here, you know, buying Birkins. They don’t have this like, you know, esthetic on Tiktok, and are trying to live in land of luxury. They’re like, I have kids, you know, I just want to set them up. I want to get my transmission done. And know that I could buy panties. I shouldn’t be out here with no panties. So I can get my transmission done. This is ridiculous.

 

Amina Altai  30:01

Everybody deserves panties.

 

X Mayo  30:06

please. Okay. So like, how can we be better at, like, recognizing the signs of stress in our body, and also, second part, what are the first sets people should take to fix this?

 

Amina Altai  30:18

Okay? I also think that you know, as a system, the system is so broken. Oh my god, absolutely. I’m a big proponent for universal basic income. I think that everybody’s needs should be met. Nobody should have to worry about food, clothing, shelter, water, like that should just be a given. And the fact that we have a live in a world with billionaires and people that can’t feed their children is just so messed up. So at a systems level, I really think that we need universal basic income. One of the great things about Tiktok, and why I love it so much, is that, like Tiktok school, right? It’s just educated us on so many things. Love it like, I feel like nervous system is more in the zeitgeist than it’s ever been. It’s like really having a moment mindfulness, having even more of a moment than it has been for the last decade. And so I think that it is democratized a lot of these learnings that were, you know, oftentimes with high barriers to entry and people didn’t have access to and so I love that so much. And I think one of the things that we can start to recognize about the stress in our bodies is at the nervous system level, right? So even before our mindset used to be so much talk about mindset, but nervous system precedes mindset. So if our body feels threatened by the space that we’re in, or our body feels threatened by the email, we’re going to be dysregulated. And as I mentioned before, if we stay in that state of dysregulation, it can express disease. And so I think one of the most important things we could ever do is check in with our bodies. What is your body feeling right now? If you are feeling stress or tension, where in your body are you feeling that thing? If you could give it a voice, what would it say?

 

X Mayo  31:46

And I’m gonna hold you right there, because I do know that talking to especially moms, aunts, uncles, all baby boomers and even Gen X, I remember talking to my cousin, who’s 51 and I was just like, what do you do for self care? Like it’s so much going on in the pandemic. And she was like, cousin, what is that? What is self care? Genuinely didn’t know. So I’m saying that because I’m I just come from the lower class, bottom of the totem pole. So I’m thinking about all my family members and friends and where I grew up. So even when you’re saying, like, checking in with yourself. Like, I know this sounds like, you know, so, like, basic, but like, what would that first step look like someone who’s never checked in with themselves? What is the first step? And then when you say stressors in your body, like, what does that literally feel like?

 

Amina Altai  32:34

So one of the first things that we first of all want to acknowledge what you’re saying, I think it’s so important, right? So many people, especially those lower on the socioeconomic ladder, have just have to stay in motion. They can’t think about self care. They can’t think about self and that’s why, as you said at the top of our conversation, community spaces are so important, and that’s been big in bipoc and Qt bipoc spaces forever, because community is a safe space for us to heal and to hold each other. But one of the simplest things that we could do is notice our breath, like just right now, if you notice your breath, just have it. Have you noticed your breath? When was the last time you noticed your breath? And is your breathing quick and shallow? Is it soft and elongated? And just notice the breath, even just noticing it will start to lend itself to a shift, okay? And then a body scan is when we You can close your eyes. You can do with your eyes, open whatever feels best for you, but you could just, literally, you close your eyes. What I do is I close my eyes, and I just move from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet over the course of a couple of minutes, and as I move through I’m just checking in with every space of like, do I feel any tension or anything in my face? Do I feel any tension in my jaw, what’s happening in my shoulders, what’s happening in my chest, what’s happening in my back, what’s happening in my glutes, what’s happening in my feet? And we don’t ask ourselves these questions, right, like, what’s happening in my shoulders? Oh, my shoulders are scrunched up by my ears because I feel terrified. And just noticing honestly, can lend itself to the most profound shift, and then I really love to use a tool called mapping, and it’s something that I’ve learned about in the last two years. And these tools are all free, so mapping is when so I mentioned before, if you’re feeling stress or tension in your body, notice where you feel. I always feel it in my chest and my shoulders. It’s like, that’s my spot, mine’s the back. Okay, great. So let’s use yours the back. So where specifically in the back.

 

X Mayo  34:23

Um, so like, where my neck is right here, like right under my neck to the middle of my back.

 

Amina Altai  34:29

Okay, great.

 

X Mayo  34:29

That’s where I hold a lot of stress.

 

Amina Altai  34:31

So what we’re gonna do is map. And all mapping is, is locating two points, right? So let’s use the point where the most pressure or intensity is.

 

X Mayo  34:40

Right under my neck.

 

Amina Altai  34:41

Okay, great. And then find another point nearby. So whether it’s the one below it that you pointed to, or literally anything nearby and for two minutes, just to start with, two minutes in your mind’s eye, so in your center of visualization, just ping ponging between those two points, back and forth, just going back and forth between those two points and. What happens is, is, after a few minutes, your body will start to adjust, because in our brains, our brain is updating the map. Because most of us are either future tripping or we’re in the past, we’re not actually in the present moment. And this mindfulness exercise actually allows you to be in the present moment and your brain to update the map of what’s actually happening in the room. So we might be dysregulated because we’re thinking about that time that we were on a podcast three years ago and we totally messed up and said something really silly. So I’m in in fight or flight, but if I’m just here right now, just between those two points, I’m realizing, oh, there’s no threat in the room, I’m okay, or there also might be a threat in the room, and then we need to notice that and then act accordingly.

 

X Mayo  35:42

And then also, too, I feel like, Amna, I think you’re very blessed in the way that I think you appear to be someone who is active on her journey to healing, right? And so I think that there is a level of worthiness that you know and believe about yourself, to even know that you’re worthy of having a body that is regulated, you know, like that you’re deserving of a pause, you know. So I think what you said up top that most of us don’t want you know, employee of the month, the trophy, all of that we really want, acceptance, security and belonging. Do you have any examples of how we can give those things to ourselves? Because I do believe that as much as I love to be affirmed and need to be affirmed and need that support and need that community, I know that I do not want to exhaust the people around me of needing so much from them that what they give me is extra and it’s nice and it’s necessary, but my base foundation comes from me. Do you have any advice on that?

 

Amina Altai  36:55

I love this question. I think that we build this brick by brick, right? Yes, you’re absolutely right. I am blessed, and I, at this point in my life, can say that I feel worthy of healing and I feel worthy of a big, beautiful life. But I didn’t always right. I didn’t even feel worthy of going to the emergency room that day. I took about eight hours to be like, Oh, guess I should go. And so we have to rewrite the stories. And so many of them are so hard to rewrite, because the world is perpetually reinforcing that we’re not worthy. And so we have to do that work at the mindset level, at the nervous system level, to feel like our bodies are worthy of care, our bodies are worthy of support. We deserve to be here and to live. And that’s really huge work. It sounds like I’m making it sound so simple I say it in a sound bite. But it is huge. It’s the work of a lifetime. And especially, like, you know, where we are the current administration, right, kind of reinforcing these stories of lacks, lack of worthiness. And so we have to really be actively working for this reclamation. And so one of the first things that I did was, you know, where do I not feel worthy? Why do I not feel worthy? What are the stories? And, you know, like for me, I grew up in a I lived life in a larger body. When I was younger, I had one eyebrow, and I was a kid with a smelly lunch and the weird name, so like, I was bullied alive at school, and so I had to really rewrite those stories. And everyone is going to have a different story and a different lived experience. But we have to re start by reclaiming that.

 

X Mayo  38:19

So we need to go back to them, kids who bullied you, and we need to fight that is that, because I would do not do that okay, because I’m with you. I’m the like excuse, yes, my mama, I got tamales absolutely and, you know, let me tell you, I was so bold, and I had such like, a big mouth, which I love little girls with big mouths, because they grow up to be women who make change are leaders. But I used to tell go into the teacher’s lounge. And I used to be like, Excuse me, I need to heat up my food Absolutely. And I used to love rainy days and Mama makes mother pork chop. She’ll make like, maybe rice and gravy, cabbage and kids. I’m like, and I should be like, Baby going over there with that Lunchable and that reboot and get the fuck out of my face. Okay, so don’t fast, so I definitely feel you on that, like the trauma that we experienced, you know, as a kid. I mean, sometimes you just got to write it out. And I think if you have a phone, or if you have a pen and a pad, just doing that, because there are so many barriers to entry for us to feel safe as black and brown people you know, to get into therapy and stuff like that. But I think just knowing that you have value, knowing that you’re worthy. And I know it may sound crazy, but I often, I pump myself up all day, even today, today was really hard. I mean, obviously we can’t look away from the administration. I have many immigrants in my family, so I took the morning, kind of educating people, my mom and stuff and everybody. And once I get off the phone, I’m just like, You know what? X, good job. You’re about to go to work despite how you feel, you can hold multiple things at one time, like. You’re doing great if I get up and I make myself something to eat versus buying something and I go to the gym. When I’m on my way home from the gym, I put on one of my favorite songs. Okay, it’s any song by Kendrick Lamar, and then I’m just like, X I’m so proud of you. And I know it sounds may seem like crazy, maybe, but because I give that like and my friends have been around when I’ve done it like I they’ve been sitting here, and I’ve done all the dishes while they’re here, and I’m going to bed with a clean home. I’m like, good job. X, I’m like, you have your friends here. Like I talk out loud, like I want to say, like, people, please do that. I know it might seem crazy, but I feel so good, and I’m affirming myself. 24 725, eight. That’s my word of advice too. It’s free. It’s something you can do, everybody can do, and it’s been really life changing for me.

 

Amina Altai  40:45

I hear that, and I also feel like this is like a special gift of yours, right? From being that kid that was like, I’m heating up my lunch and like, mind your business, my lunch is delicious and yours is sad, right, to being this adult that is like, I am so deserving of a great life that I’m going to do the hard thing, and I’m going to celebrate, and I’m going to amp myself up like I just I feel like that’s a real special gift that you have.

 

X Mayo  41:06

Thank you To God be the glory, right? I am so blessed and honored to have been with you today. You’ve given us so much incredible advice. I really want to thank you for that. You’ve given me a lot to consider, to think about, to go back into my communities and talk about, to help educate us on how to use the power of the pause, as I like to say, um, so Amina, where should people be following you on social media?

 

Amina Altai  41:29

I just want to thank you, because I’ve done a lot of podcasts, and this was, by far and away the most fun podcast that I’ve ever been on.

 

X Mayo  41:36

You heard it here, folks.

 

Amina Altai  41:37

It’s so fun and meaningful, and I’m just so grateful that you exist in the world and are doing this beautiful work.

 

X Mayo  41:43

Thank you. We work really hard on the dough. Shout out to my producers. They work amazing. And laminata has been wonderful to kind of allow me to kind of just like, you know, do my thing, and we have amazing guests like you. So yes, thank you. But yes, where should we follow on social media?

 

Amina Altai  42:02

I could use some. She’s newly divorced, so she could definitely use some of that too.

 

X Mayo  42:07

No. Oh, we outside. Oh, Amina, we outside, period, yeah.

 

Amina Altai  42:12

So you can follow along on Instagram @aminaaltai. You can check out my website. aminaaltai.com spelling will be in the show notes, I am sure. And then you can get my book at any of your favorite retailers. So please do. There’s lots of juicy information in there for you. And thank you again, so much for having me.

 

X Mayo  42:30

Oh, guys, I feel like I don’t know, like I’m on a Island. I’m just calm. I’m good. The vibes with Amina are just a one, right? Don’t you agree? She’s telling us that work can literally get on our nerves. I mean, I feel seen. Do you feel seen? We feel seen. So the best way to protect your body is to be aware of what it needs. That’s self care that anyone can do, right? It’s time to reclaim your energy from your job, and maybe that means practicing quiet quitting. But don’t go telling your boss, I’m gonna tell me it’s okay to quiet quit. So that’s why I’m not done with the project. No, we are not snitching over here. That’s why it’s called Quiet quit team. But don’t worry, I won’t be quiet quitting this job. Oh no, honey. 60 more seasons, but we all deserve to make a livable wage and not destroy our bodies in the process, and that’s the Amina and X Mayo way.

 

CREDITS  43:31

The Dough is a Lemonada original. I’m your host X Mayo.  This series was created in partnership with Flourish Ventures.  This series is presented by the Margaret Casey Foundation. Our producers are Tiffany Bui, and Dani Matias. Kristen Lepore is our senior producer.  Mix and Sound Design by Bobby Woody. Original Music by Pat Mesiti Miller. Jackie Danziger is our Vice President of narrative content.  Executive Producers include me X Mayo, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer.  Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review.  You can follow me on IG  @80dollarsandasuitcase and Lemonada @lemonadamedia across all social platforms, follow The Dough wherever you get your podcast or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership, thanks so much for listening. See you next week, bye.