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Why Menopause is Having a Moment | Tamsen Fadal

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Ricki is rocking her grey hair and embracing the changes in her body, like entering perimenopause. So let’s talk about it! Journalist Tamsen Fadal is among a powerful group of women demanding that the mainstream medical community takes menopause more seriously with new studies and treatments. Ricki and Tamsen discuss hormone therapy, hot flashes, libido, and how to enter this stage of your life with curiosity and vigor rather than dread.

Pre-order Tamsen’s book, ‘How to Menopause’: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/how-to-menopause.

Watch ‘The M Factor: Shredding the Silence on Menopause,’ which Tamsen executive produced: https://www.pbs.org/show/the-m-factor-shredding-the-silence-on-menopause/.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Ricki Lake, Tamsen Fadal

Ricki Lake  00:02

This is The High Life with me, Ricki Lake, where we get to find out how my guests crack the code to living a full and vibrant life. So you can too. So most of you listeners, you know I am not shy about aging. I own the fact that I’m 56 years old. I’m rocking my gray hair, and I’m always saying that I feel better than ever in my middle age, but as I enter midlife perimenopause, it is creeping in. Yeah, I know it’s hard to say that I’m not in menopause yet. It’s weird. I’m 56 but I have not I still get a period pretty regularly, but millions of women are entering menopause, and we rarely talk about what exactly menopause is, and how do you manage it. The FDA recently approved a drug to treat hot flashes just last year, and there are others in development. It is about time, and my guest today is part of the new wave of acceptance and education around this phase of women’s lives that affect all of us, women at some point. Tamsen Fadal is a menopause advocate. Emmy award winning journalist, excuse me, she has 13 of them and a documentary producer this past year, her first documentary film, the M factor shredding the silence, released on PBS. Her upcoming book How to menopause, releases next March in 2025 I am so excited for all of that is happening. Thank you so much. Tamsen, it’s such a pleasure to talk to you today.

 

Tamsen Fadal  01:21

Oh, thank you so much. Thank you for always being so open and honest and real about everything that’s going on. We we have to have those voices. It means so much.

 

Ricki Lake  01:29

You know that we met back in 2007 when I was promoting my documentary The business of being born in New York on WPI x A long time ago.

 

Tamsen Fadal  01:38

It was a long time ago. How have you been menopause?

 

Ricki Lake  01:41

I am amazing.

 

Tamsen Fadal  01:44

My friend.

 

Ricki Lake  01:44

I’m so grateful for you. Thank you for all you’re doing. And we are actually going to be working together with Abby Epstein, my work partner, on her new project, the midlife monologs. Well before we get started, I have my opening question for my guests, where are you getting your highs from right now? What is bringing you joy at this time?

 

Tamsen Fadal  02:05

I think you know around joy is coming from. And I can 100% say this so quickly, is this community. I wake up, I pop out of bed every day, excited to, like, talk to these people and talk to women and hear from women and share with women. And I don’t think I’ve ever had that before. You know, I never have felt this closeness of a community, and that means a lot to me. It just I ride high on it every day.

 

Ricki Lake  02:27

That is awesome. I mean, how did you get into this work? And I feel like there’s a lot of parallels, because I got into this, you know, the birth world, and made a documentary, and went on that whole path and took on something, you know, like, I’m not an expert, I’m not a doctor. But yet, I really felt like this conversation of options being available to women when they’re having a baby, or thinking of having a family, it was so important. So for you, starting with this, this world, how did you get into it? What sparked this for you?

 

Tamsen Fadal  02:55

Yeah, I feel like it’s the exact same thing you’re talking about. Is the fact that, you know, I was a journalist for 30 plus years, that’s what I did. I delivered the evening news, I delivered the morning news, I told stories. I love doing that, but I was in the newsroom one night just doing my job, and I wound up on the bathroom floor in the middle of a newscast with severe menopause symptoms. However, I didn’t know that’s what they were at the time, and I did this doctor to doctor, like I’ve found out so many women do, and I ended up with a notification portal that said, in menopause, any questions, four words from my doctor, like, hey, just letting you know you’re here. And if you have any questions, you can get a hold of me. Not Hey, this is a big transition. Want to help you through it. Here’s what to expect. I just kind of came up against this brick wall, and that’s how it started for me, asking questions and trying to figure out what was going on, similar to you, like I was trying to solve what was going on in my world.

 

Ricki Lake  03:48

And so what were the symptoms that put you on the bathroom floor? Like, did you feel faint? Did you feel like, like, describe that. And how old were you?

 

Tamsen Fadal  03:56

Almost 48 and it’s funny, I was like, I’m too young for menopause. What are they talking about? Little did I know I was, you know, exactly, pretty much exactly, on time, but I had been having symptoms leading up to this. I just didn’t know that those were symptoms of menopause. But what landed me on the bathroom floor is I had gotten it very intense hot flash, my heart racing out of control, where I could hear it in my ears, and then feeling like I was going to pass out. And then that causing anxiety. I wound up on the bathroom floor. What was happening before then, which I didn’t have a word for, was brain fog, which was I’d look at a word, you know, on the teleprompter in front of me, a word I said a million times. Couldn’t remember it, and would just skip it and have this, this moment of panic, like, I don’t know what’s going on, but I can’t remember that, I’ll just keep going, and my confidence was really taking a serious, serious hit. So that was happening. I was gaining weight, I was losing sleep, I was working out the same eating, you know, eating better than I ever had. And I couldn’t, didn’t feel like myself. And that was probably the biggest part of it, is I, and I kept saying, like, who? Is Who am I now? Like this is not who I am but, but it’s who I’m becoming. And that’s what was going on in my life. Little did I know those were symptoms of perimenopause going up until this, you know, that day of menopause.

 

Ricki Lake  05:12

And so how did the light bulb go on for you? Because it really does feel like it’s in the zeitgeist now. It feels like there’s been a shift, and I think you’re, you’re partially responsible for that.

 

Tamsen Fadal  05:22

There is a shift in the conversation, but I never had anyone to talk about it with, either, because I lost my mother early in life, and so I my mom was 51 when she died, and I found out, because she had gone through breast cancer, that she went through menopause, but I had no idea so she had gone through it alone. And so, you know, part of what makes me so happy about this shift is that we’re going to have women that feel comforted in this space to be able to talk and have a community. You having a community to go through it so you know what to expect. But you know, with hormone therapy, you know, it’s something that we’ve been very scared of for a long time, because there was study back in 2002.

 

Ricki Lake  05:56

Yeah, tell us about this study that really botched it for everyone. It was like it was like, it was, it was an unfair study. They studied older women, right?

 

Tamsen Fadal  06:04

Yeah, older women, and, you know, women that were past the age of, you know, where we are at, you know, perimenopause, or menopause. And it got a lot of women very confused, because at the end of the day, the headlines made women think they were going to, you know, that hormone therapy equaled breast cancer. And I was one of the women that that thought that, and I didn’t even know where the idea that had ever come from for me, but I always knew that my biggest fear, because of my mother, was breast cancer. So anything that would even go towards something like as a as a possibility in my mind was completely off the table. So when I went to I did have a doctor that finally listened to me, but for a while I had doctors say, in menopause, any questions I was scared myself of hormone therapy. I didn’t have a doctor that really talked to me about it, and I finally had one that said, Listen, you are going through night sweats. You are, you know, weight is becoming an issue for you. You are waking up in the middle of the night 10 times a night or not going to sleep. You’re having all these things going on. And hormone therapy is one of the most effective ways to deal with a certain symptoms of menopause, and that’s what you’re not going to do. And I said, Well, I this is the information I thought I had, and that doctor said the data does not support what you are saying. You have misinformation. And that’s where I really think that. I said, Oh, I’ve got to start talking about that. So hormone therapy for me is estrogen and progesterone, and I’ve now, since in the last year, added testosterone, like you’re talking about, there’s no FDA approved testosterone for women.

 

Ricki Lake  07:25

Which is so messed up, I saw it in your movie. It’s like men can get via recovered every testosterone covered for them, even even people transitioning, can get testosterone, but women can’t get it.

 

Tamsen Fadal  07:38

Yes.

 

Ricki Lake  07:38

They have to pay out of pocket.

 

Tamsen Fadal  07:39

Yeah, it’s not FDA, it’s not FDA approved. So I for women, but you know what? It’s made a huge difference in my life. It’s made a huge difference for me. So, but that’s what hormone therapy is and has done. And I think that the fears that women have about hormone therapy, I think, you know, I’m not, I’m not with anybody to say, like, hey, I’m a big advocate, and you’ve got to do this. There’s no other answers. That’s not what I think, but what I do think is you should have the information.

 

Ricki Lake  08:06

Yeah, that’s exactly my thinking.

 

Tamsen Fadal  08:07

And you shouldn’t be walking around unknown and not know what’s going on. So at least you can make a decision for yourself, right? It might not be for you, or you might have a contra indicator that says I can’t, I can’t do it because I have had breast cancer, or I do have a high, you know, high risk of of blood clots. You know, there could be a number of reasons, but you know, you’ve talked about different doctors, and those doctors have that information, and it’s so important for me, with the documentary, anyway, in the book, to elevate those voices and to make sure that women also feel like there’s real women like us talking about it.

 

Ricki Lake  08:40

What was it like making this documentary? What was the process did you have, and when you screened it and finished it and presented it to doctors? Was there any backlash?

 

Tamsen Fadal  08:48

You know, I was petrified of this documentary, I have to tell you, because I had never done one before. I was a news anchor my whole life. What was really important for us is to make sure two things we had, the stories of real women, because that was a big deal. I wanted women to be able to see themselves in the documentary. And my co producers and I, we came together through the course of the documentary, four women, two of us on the East Coast, two on the West Coast, and we worked tirelessly to try to make sure we had the women’s voices to be heard in the documentary, and also a lot of different experts. Because I think you could ask 10 doctors their opinions, and you can get 15 answers right now. And I think that that’s what’s confusing for women. So we wanted to try to make sure that we had doctors that had science based evidence behind them. You know, I think in terms of what was interesting to me before the documentary came out, as I had a lot of people say, nobody wants to talk about that. There’s no audience for that topic. Like it’s not going to air here. Luckily, PBS said, you know, there is an audience for it, and we do want that information. So that was exciting for me to be able to get the yes. But now I look back and I’m like, There’s no audience for that documentary. The audience has been ignored for so long. It’s the audience that’s not been able to talk for so long. So we wanted to make sure that we. Had those two things, the real women and the experts that are in these different spaces. Lisa Moscone, who is a huge neuroscientist, she’s amazing. She’s amazing. Just so much research to help women. Help women when it comes to research for Alzheimer’s and dementia, help women in menopause. We had Dr Kelly Casperson talking about testosterone, such a huge topic.

 

Ricki Lake  10:21

Dr Shen, what she’s doing at Johns Hopkins.

 

Tamsen Fadal  10:24

I met her through this. She’s incredible and educating the next generation, which is, you know, the other big part, you know, people have asked like, what surprised me the most, the lack of educations that doctors get, and the fact they have to educate themselves, makes me so sad. And so I think it was important for us to shine a light. I don’t think we have all the answers right, but for us to shine a light on what we do now, so that we know what questions we still have to ask. That was the point of the documentary. Like, what? Because we have a lot we have to ask. Why don’t we have enough money for research? What do we need to do next? What else can we do to help women get more options? Men have so many options for, you know, for Ed, women have very little when it comes to sex. So I just, I thought that was really an important part of this documentary.

 

Ricki Lake  11:10

Why do you think that is, is it the patriarchy? Is it keeping women down? Is it, I mean, like, what? What is the reason behind it?

 

Tamsen Fadal  11:16

Yes, all of those and more. You know, women have just never, especially after 40 years old, have never really been a big part of the system. I was in Washington yesterday, and I was listening to some of the statistics, and I feel like every time I attend something or go somewhere, I’m still shocked, even though I think I’ve heard every horrifying statistic there is. But you know, women were not part of studies until, you know, just a few decades ago, that’s insane like that doesn’t even make sense. Many of the things that have been studied, many of the medications we take right now, women were not part of those studies and not mandated.

 

Ricki Lake  11:49

To be Ambien.

 

Tamsen Fadal  11:50

Of course.

 

Ricki Lake  11:51

They never tested on women and reacts totally different in a woman’s body.

 

Tamsen Fadal  11:56

Totally different, and so, you know, so that’s one of the reasons. The other reason is, I think women really at this this age, not so relevant to a lot of people in society, right? Kind of invisible past their prime years. I mean, that’s what society has told us for a long time. So the media has told us a long time, and that’s just not true. It’s just not true, and it makes me sad.

 

Ricki Lake  12:17

Yeah, it makes me sad too. That’s why I really like sharing, like, what’s going on with me. I mean, for whatever, what it’s worth. I mean, it’s like, I’m having my experience.

 

Tamsen Fadal  12:26

It’s worth a lot. Ricki, it’s worth a lot.

 

Ricki Lake  12:29

I have so many more questions for Tamsin, but let’s take a quick break first.

 

Ricki Lake  12:43

Yeah, your book is a guide, right? It’s a guide for us going through it. Tell us what to expect when this book comes out.

 

Tamsen Fadal  12:50

Yeah, what to expect when you’re not, not going to be expecting, right? I’m so excited about it. I interviewed 42 experts for the book. But what did I want to make sure what the book was, it was expert driven and girlfriend approved, because I wanted to make sure there was those real stories in there from real women talking about what they were going through, and then it goes past the doctor’s office. So, you know, I wanted there to be the information about menopause, perimenopause, menopause, post menopause, and then to understand the different parts of our life It affects, because we can’t just say, Listen, we got our hormone therapy, and it doesn’t affect anything else. It affects a lot of different of different things. This is a whole different time in our life. It’s a whole new season. So I did a lot of interviews regarding sex. Emily Dr, Emily is actually in the book as well. I wanted to talk about breast cancer, because that’s been a huge fear of mine for a long time. Losing my mother and stepmother to the disease. We talk about brain health. We talk about nutrition and working out differently, and my workout is completely different from what it was. You know, I’m an 80s girl, so I spent a big portion of my life on a, you know, on a, whatever you call.

 

Ricki Lake  13:51

The step, and like, yeah.

 

Tamsen Fadal  13:55

Till there was a pool of sweat.

 

Ricki Lake  13:56

And it’s really about weight training.

 

Tamsen Fadal  13:58

Totally weight training.

 

Ricki Lake  14:00

Explains it, like, really, it’s like the whole way of thinking has been, like, wiped off the map. It’s a whole different approach.

 

Tamsen Fadal  14:06

It’s a total shift. I remember, I mean, I don’t know about you, but I would go into the gym, and it would be like, here’s the girls area for the cardio, and then the guy’s weight lifting room was in the back, and it was this whole mirrored room with big, you know, dirty weights, and like, all the guys in there and music pumping, and the girls would all be on the you know, it’s not like that anymore. Like I walk into the weight room, I’m like, move, move. Here I am, and I and I’ve noticed recently that that’s, that’s what I’m seeing as well. Like women at all ages lifting weights, because it’s so important. We have a couple of things to really look at and worry about and think about, and that is brain health, heart health and bone health, and those are three big things that I focus on in the book, because I think it’s very important that we look at those things long term, because we don’t want to be frail and and, you know, falling and all those kind of concerns that we have getting older we’re going to live longer. We want to live healthier, not just in terms of age and number. Yeah, the book. Also goes into relationships, because I got remarried at the age of 50, and, you know, I was a menopausal bride, so I that was something I had to tackle when I was on my honeymoon. And, you know, after I met my husband.

 

Ricki Lake  15:12

Were you on HT, at that point?

 

Tamsen Fadal  15:14

I was not. You were no, I had just, I actually just started, I think then, because I had no sex drive.

 

Ricki Lake  15:20

Yeah, I my libido is super shot right now, and that’s why I’m going to start this testosterone, but I’m also, like, in a new marriage as well. This is my third last and favorite marriage.

 

Tamsen Fadal  15:30

And it’s my second last and favorite right.

 

Ricki Lake  15:32

Right? So, I mean, I think testosterone is going to be a game changer, and I think it’s going to be immediate. I’m literally going to pick up testosterone for the first time. Later today.

 

Tamsen Fadal  15:42

I can’t wait to hear.

 

Ricki Lake  15:43

Yeah, I’m hoping that. I’m hoping that spark some my libido weekend.

 

Tamsen Fadal  15:48

Oh, good.

 

Ricki Lake  15:49

Yeah, wow. So okay, so your husband, your new husband, came along on this journey for you.

 

Tamsen Fadal  15:54

He did.

 

Ricki Lake  15:55

He did. Was it instant, like when you finally got the hormones in check?

 

Tamsen Fadal  15:59

It was, I tell the story in the book, and I’ll just share it with you. When I first met my husband, I was still very frisky. And when we were dating, and I said, What do you want for Christmas? He goes, I want you in a big red bow. So for Christmas, he opened the door, and I was like, in a bow, naked, like so frisky, fun girl. And then the next year, the next year, I was like, he asked for the same thing. I’m like, Are you out of your mind? I’m not doing that. I wouldn’t Yeah, I just totally had no libido left anymore. So, you know, we went through the ups and downs of that, because it can be really hard and really frustrating, and it, I think it really takes a knock at your confidence. And you know, I know a lot of people that have difficulty in relationships as a result of that, and it’s hard to talk about. I wanted the book to be friendly enough that people can have conversations with their partners or their kids or their girlfriends, you know, and then themselves. So it would be something that didn’t feel overly medical and and fearful. I wanted it to be something that was a conversation.

 

Ricki Lake  16:56

Ah, so important. It’s so exciting, because I just think this next generation is going to have it so much better than our parents.

 

Tamsen Fadal  17:03

Oh, gosh, I hope so.

 

Ricki Lake  17:06

And how were you administering? I have, I have all these questions, because I’m about to undergo it.

 

Tamsen Fadal  17:11

Oh yeah I could tell you anything. I could show you my patch. So you do a patch. I do yeah, I have a patch. I have a patch on my Want me to show you. Let me find it.

 

Ricki Lake  17:19

Yeah, and you replace it every week?

 

Tamsen Fadal  17:22

Yeah, I’ve got it right here.

 

Ricki Lake  17:23

Okay, that’s testosterone.

 

Tamsen Fadal  17:25

So it sits on my No, that is estrogen, so that’s estradiol, okay? And I replace that every Monday morning and Thursday night.

 

Ricki Lake  17:33

So how do you remember that? Do you have like a.

 

Tamsen Fadal  17:35

It’s in my phone, okay, yeah, it’s my phone. It says patch AM, patch PM, and there’s like a alarm on it, because otherwise I won’t, but yeah, so I make sure to change that. Testosterone I do every day, and progesterone every night. Behind your knees, I do it on my arms. I do it right on my on my arms, or my inner arm. And I do every other arm every day. It’s a pump. It’s just a little like, you know, thing that you can put pumps out the right amount, so in the documentary, Dr Kelly was showing the packets right that you have to kind of administer for yourself, and it gets a little bit messy, which a lot of women don’t like. This is a little pump. And just just pumps one thing, and it’s the it’s the amount I rub it on, wash my hands, and keep going about my day, and I have seen a real big difference.

 

Ricki Lake  18:18

So do you still get hot flashes even though you’re on hormone therapy?

 

Tamsen Fadal  18:22

I do sometimes. That’s why I went up. So I started at a point two, five on that patch, and I’m up to a point seven, five, so it’s not a one and done. Like you don’t go to the doctor, get it, and that’s the end of it. You really do have to be your own best advocate and all of it. And so I’m I’m lucky enough to feel like I have a doctor that has paid attention to where I’ve been with all of it, if I’m feeling off or I was feeling I was getting the hot flashes at night, so I was getting like, night sweats, and I went, Okay, this is not okay. My foot is in and out of the covers again, you know. And I was just feeling not good. And she said, we’re just going to up it a little bit. And so I’ve been on that for about a year at that level, and stayed pretty steady and feel pretty good. And I feel the brain fog also has really lifted for me, which is nice. It really took a knock at my confidence. I mean, you you know this like to be talking and to feel like you’ve lost your train of thought, or you can’t remember something mid sentence, or you’re on camera and can’t remember, and you just like you have that panic feeling. I was having that for a long time, and I don’t feel like that anymore, and that feels really good to have my confidence back.

 

Ricki Lake  19:24

What was the most surprising thing that you learned in doing the documentary in the book? Would you say?

 

Tamsen Fadal  19:31

I think there were a few things, I think the, I think the amount of pressure we have to put women on to advocate for themselves, I think really surprised me. Like I want to say to women, go to a doctor and you know, you get it all taken care of, but we have to say, go to a doctor. Make sure you bring your symptoms in, make sure you know what’s going on, and make sure if your doctor doesn’t want to talk about it, you’ve got to find another doctor. So that is always hard for me to have to say to women, because I wish I could just say to them, go to a doctor and they’ll tell you what to do. But because this. Has been under researched, understudied, under under financed. You know, we we still have to do a lot of the work there. I think that the second thing is, and I was really lucky to be able to do the book, kind of alongside the documentary, is that there’s so much more that I wish we could have put into that film. And so I feel like there’s, oh gosh. I mean, we have to talk about so much more with regard to breast cancer, so much more with regard to the new medications that are out there right now. So there’s just so many different areas that we need to talk about. Mental health. When it comes to menopause, what happens when it when it gets better? On the other side of it, Lisa Moscone, we had her talk a little bit about it. But I think we need women have to have that promise and that hope. I was on Long Island last night at a screening, and a woman emailed me this morning she had attended, and she said, I just want you to know I walked away with a lot of answers, a lot of questions, but also a lot of hope. And that was the goal of that documentary that made me feel good. So there’s going to be new information all the time. There’s going to be people that don’t agree with everything all the time. I totally get it, but what we worked really hard at is finding the the best of the best and as much information as we could get out there to start that conversation. And you know, that was the most important part.

 

Ricki Lake  21:16

It’s so similar to my experience of making the business of being born. It’s same kind of thing. It’s like about advocating for yourself, finding a care provider that shares you, you know, it’s very much the same thing. And you really do have to take your health in your own hands. Nobody knows your body better than you, yeah? And it’s so important, you know? And it’s like, this is going to be a forever tool. And I know the movie is being taught in medical school, correct?

 

Tamsen Fadal  21:42

Yeah, we have that. Well, the movie had CME is attached to it. So we had a webinar, Anthony, it was in October, CME continuing medical education. So we had about 200 physicians that used that to be able to get hours for their for their medical license, for the renewal for medical license. That was amazing to me. Now we have a lot of the different schools around the country and a lot of different organizations that we provided as a tool. So if you have an organization, or you have a community or you have a health clinic, we give them the film and they can show the film to their community. So we’ve had about 400 screenings so far in 30 countries, and the countries keep going up. Yeah, we had one recently in Italy. We had in Milan. We had Lithuania, Singapore, New Zealand, UK, Canada, all across the US. It’s unbelievable. But it’s the women that are doing it.

 

Ricki Lake  22:32

That’s incredible.

 

Tamsen Fadal  22:34

I know it’s the women that are educating, they are taking it and they want to educate their communities and have the conversations afterwards. So I think what excites me, along with them seeing the film, being able to get some answers there so they can ask those next questions, is knowing that they have people within their community to talk to, and that’s the big deal. So afterward, probably all of them are having conversations, and they’ll talk an hour, hour and a half with a panel of doctors are with a panel of community experts to have a conversation and have an open conversation about menopause. How cool is that?

 

Ricki Lake  23:05

That’s incredible.

 

Tamsen Fadal  23:07

We didn’t do that before. Could you imagine raising your hand and being like, I have a question about vaginal dryness. People be like, what? And now it’s just being shouted out. And that feels really good.

 

Ricki Lake  23:17

The tides are changing. Yeah, let’s take a quick break, and then we’ll be back with more with Tamsen Fadal.

 

Ricki Lake  23:34

One thing about your film that I love is when towards again, they talk about the freedom that that we should be looking at the upside of this rite of passage of becoming post menopausal. Can you talk about that a little?

 

Tamsen Fadal  23:47

I can, because I feel like I’m getting into that finally. You know, when I started this, I was not there. I was like, I hope this really does happen. I’m talking about what they’re telling me is going to happen. But, you know, Lisa Moscone kind of tracks that out with it’s like a pre menopausal, perimenopausal, menopausal, when you have this dip, and then you come back out in that post menopausal error. And I know we kind of joke about it culturally, like no more F’s to give and, you know, we don’t care anymore about, you know, worry about things. But I think really what what we do is we realize, I think a couple of things myself, and this is not from like scientific, but I just think we realize that we’re on this other side of looking at our lives, where we lived a lot of it, and we start to be appreciative and start to understand, and we’re coming through some of those harder symptoms. I mean, perimenopause is some of those harder symptoms, especially for me, my period. I had a period one time that was a month long. You know, I was off, way off during that time, I was not not myself. I couldn’t have had this conversation with you. I would have been all over the place and lost my train of thought. So I think when you’re coming out that other side, you just feel this freedom of who you are, who you’ve become. I think you’ve given yourself a little bit of time to pause and all this because you’ve got to take care of yourself, self care. Is not luxury. It’s not something we’re going to do someday, like you have no choice but to do that. I think we’ve taken care of so many others that we’re finally taking care of ourselves, which is a really beautiful thing. And you know, I don’t think it’s a time that comes without a lot of fear and a lot of the questions of, you know now what and what’s next, but I do think it’s a time where you have a bit more freedom.

 

Ricki Lake  25:19

I’m looking forward to it, because, as I said, like I really am in the greatest time of my life. You know, I feel like my previous chapters were very much career focused, raising children, you know, giving of myself, making sacrifices. And I feel like it’s kind of a selfish time. And I don’t mean that in a derogatory way. I actually think like it’s like, guilt free. My kids are out of the house. They’re raised. They’re still in my life. I’m still their mom, but I really get to, like, relish this time with my new marriage and congratulations too, by the way, thank you. It really I want to be like a beacon of hope for people, especially, you know, life after all, I’ve been through and what I’ve shared, I’ve definitely come out the other side, but I haven’t gone through menopause yet.

 

Tamsen Fadal  26:00

Well, we’ve got, you, you’ve got a community, though, you’ve got a really great community.

 

Ricki Lake  26:05

Yeah, I feel supported going through this process right now. So you know what’s, what’s interesting about this whole topic is that everyone is different. Everyone has different symptoms, different timing. So for me, you know, I’m 56 I still get a period pretty regularly. It’s starting to change. It’s starting like, a skip a month, or it’s heavier one month, like, I’m tracking it. I’m really, like, like, paying attention. I love that, though. But, you know, I’ve never had a hot flash. I’ve never had a night sweat. Wow, that’s great, I know, but I can’t explain it, but it’s gonna hit me at some point. Like, it’s just, it is going to, like, like, what, you know, there are women that are turned 60, and then they start, like, going downhill. And I know you’ve talked to Abby Epstein, my, my documentary film partner, yeah, they’re working Constance Zimmer, and she are working on this model, midlife monolog. So I’m a part of, and I think you’re a part of as well. Yes, she loves you. It’s very exciting. I mean, what is next for you? Where do you go from here? You the book. You’re going to go on a book tour, and imagine a couple months, right?

 

Tamsen Fadal  27:06

Yeah, I’m super excited about that. I’m excited about the book. You know, I, you know, your first question was, where I find my highs now? And I think that’s going to be my high, or we’re working right now on having a big party in March, just, celebrate this time in life versus, you know, I don’t want it to be like, here’s my book party. I wanted to be really a celebration of this time these women, because they’re the ones that have kind of lifted me through all this and given me the questions to ask. So that’s been exciting. So we’re going to do a tour, and started off with a big party, and I’m looking forward to that. And then I don’t know, you know, I’ve been asked a couple of questions about whether or not there’s another documentary, and I just feel like there’s a lot more to answer. So I don’t know if it comes in terms of a documentary or a series, but I do think there’s more there. Because I I don’t think we can stop this conversation, and I really want to be a big advocate in that and finding more funding for this and demanding that we have, you know, more studies, more research, help the doctors like Lisa Moscone who are doing that research and need that funding to get us more of those answers for that next generation. Yeah, so that’s what I’m hopeful to be able to contribute my voice to.

 

Ricki Lake  28:09

Do you have advice for someone who can’t afford to go from doctor to doctor and afford? You know, we’re paying out of pocket. Like you said, the testosterone isn’t covered because it’s not FDA approved for women. So what advice do you have for those people that are just embarking on this and don’t necessarily have the means?

 

Tamsen Fadal  28:26

Yeah, I’m always so cognizant of that, because I don’t think that money should be this barrier to access and to help and to feel to feel good, and expecting a woman to spend, I don’t know how many days that would be, because it takes a half a half a day to a day to go to a doctor, and then the money that’s involved in it. With it is ridiculous. I’m happy to see a lot of these telehealth companies popping up that are making it very helpful and very accessible to be able to get on a call like this, you know, see somebody there, or talk to somebody there, or text somebody there and say, like, look, this is how I feel. I have these five things going on, and they’re not playing Whack a Mole with their symptoms, because a lot of women will go to this doctor for joint pain, that doctor for brain fog, this doctor for, you know, the hot flashes, and they still don’t have an answer. So we’ve got to pull it all together, and I think telehealth has done a really nice job of that. MIDI is one of the telehealth companies out there. Alloy Maven. There’s a lot of different options out there. A lot of them take insurance. And so I feel like very I feel like there’s some promise and some hope there. I really, really do. And I’m hoping, I’m hoping there’s more that we can do to help women that don’t have that access.

 

Ricki Lake  29:31

Yeah, and I hope they’re not gaslit. You know, there’s so many stories of women, oh, you’re just in your head. It’s just in your head. I think, suck it up. The conversation, and these projects, like this documentary, like this book, I think are helping to just make women aware that it’s not in your head.

 

Tamsen Fadal  29:46

Gosh, I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. I don’t want any, I don’t want any woman to be like, What am I going through? I will hope one day that there’s a baseline so at 40 years old, women go, Hey, I need to start thinking about perimenopause symptoms so I know what they are. Here’s a bunch of the symptoms. I’ll just keep an eye out for them and make it be that easy, so it’s not this big, scary, fearful thing where all of a sudden you just don’t feel relevant. You feel like you just don’t matter. Because that’s not true.

 

Ricki Lake  30:12

Yeah, well, you are anything but irrelevant you are doing. I mean, you just look at you, my friends. I’m so grateful that you’re doing what you’re doing. I’m so happy to be a part of this community, and thank you so much for this work and for your time today. Such a pleasure.

 

Tamsen Fadal  30:27

Thank you for everything you’re doing for women.

 

Ricki Lake  30:29

Okay, she is delightful, and I feel like there were so many synchronicities. It really is so fun to connect with Tamsen after all these years, we met, you know, being a guest on her newscast, and now, years later, we’re both kind of living our purpose and finding our voice. And it just that feels really good. And I feel just really hopeful, like what she said about the film, that people are walking away feeling hopeful. I feel like as I’m embarking on this next phase of life, and I hope anyone who is going through it as well feels like they have a community and they have support. Thank you so much for listening. I hope you got something out of it. You can find Tamsen Fadal on Instagram and Tiktok @tamsenfadal, T, A, M, S, E, N, F, A D, A L. You can stream The M factor. I urge you to watch this movie. It was really enlightening for me. Stream The M factor shredding thesilence@pbs.org or check your local listings. Thank you so much for listening. There is much more of The Highlight For Lemonada Premium guys, subscribers get exclusive access to bonus content like rapid fire questions with my new friend Tamsen Fadal. Subscribe now in Apple podcasts. Hey and guys, if you like what you’re hearing, please. If you wouldn’t mind if you could rate and review the show. It would really help us, thanks. The High Life is a production of Lemonada Media. Isabella Kulkarni and Kathryn Barnes, Isaura Acevez  produced our show. Our mixes by James Sparber. Executive Producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jessica Cordova Kramer. Additional Lemonada support from Rachel Neel and Steve Nelson. You can find me  @Rickilake on Instagram. Follow The High Life with Ricki Lake, wherever you get your podcasts, or listen ad free on Amazon music with your Prime membership.

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