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On paper, forgiveness seems pretty simple — someone hurts you, they ask for forgiveness, you grant it, onwards and upwards. In reality? It can be a whole other story. This week, Jaime Primak Sullivan of Tell Me What To Do talks about how forgiveness is as hard as it is important. And she answers listener questions about forgiving a parent, forgiving a spouse, and forgiving oneself.

Tell Me What To Do contains mature language and themes that may not be suitable for all listeners.

Please note, this show is hosted and produced by a team that does not have any clinical or other mental or physical health training. If you are having a health or mental health crisis or emergency, please contact 911. For non-emergency mental health and addiction needs, try https://www.samhsa.gov for national and local resources.

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Jackson, Jaime Primak Sullivan

Jaime Primak Sullivan  00:00

Forgive others not because they deserve forgiveness but because you deserve peace. Do I?

What does Confucius say about forgiveness? Go suck it. What in the dippity dog? Are you talking about? Ha? Too much you can’t win them all you no big deal. Right? Let me buy you a beer because you have Nananananailed it.

Hey guys, you’re listening to the TELL ME WHAT TO DO podcast. I am Jaime Primak Sullivan and I am so grateful that you guys are here this week. Let me give you a disclaimer that I am a bitch. I am just irritable. I have been dealing with vertigo, anxiety, dizziness, so if I come across like a little more moody or short or curt than normal, just know it’s because I feel like I did a whippit and can’t get the nitrous out of my brain. Wah wah wah wah wah. Wait funnier is I went to the EMT and here’s this very serious conservative doctor. You know, I live in the deep south. These doctors are not like funny. They’re conservative. They’re middle aged, over middle-aged white men, right? The guy goes to my church. Okay, Father Bob recommended him if that tells you anything lovely man, but not the jokey type, right? And he’s like, just explain to me how you feel like, well, you know how when you do a whippit?

And he looks at me he’s like, I’m not sure I’m familiar with that. I’m like, yeah, you know, when you suck nitrous oxide, but like, there’s no oxygen. He’s like, No, I don’t know that. I’m like, Oh, right. Okay. I’m like, do you ever do mushrooms? He’s like, No, I’m gonna need you to get to the symptoms now. I’m like, well, I’m trying to explain to you. If you’ve never done a fucking drug, how are you supposed to know how awful I feel? Which then was just a reminder that drugs really do make you feel like shit. The thing is, it’s temporary. And you know that so when you suck a whippit you’re like, alright, I’m going to feel totally weird and fall down on the ground, but it’s going to last 20 seconds. Not a week. What kind of whippit is this God?

02:24

Not to mention that I found out today that I have hypotension, which is low blood. I always knew I had low blood pressure, but they took my blood pressure. It was 97 over 47 he was like, okay, wait, are you alive? What’s going on here? So, then he was like, you need to add more sodium to your diet. I’m like, Okay, well, sodium is not good for vertigo, doc. So, what exactly do you want me to do? I also went for acupuncture today for the first time, because at this point, I’m granola. I’ll try anything. You want me to sit out in the woods and smoke piece pipes with Janis Joplin, I’ll do it. Tell me what to do to make the world stop spinning. So, I went to acupuncture and it didn’t really hurt, but you can definitely feel that there is a needle in you, but it doesn’t hurt if that makes sense.

And then she did this thing where she adjusted my C2 and my neck. And you know, I don’t I love a sale. So, she was like, I’ve got a package of four. I’m like, of course. So, I bought, you know, the package of four. And I just I don’t know, I think I’m in this vortex. And if one more person says to me, it’s a shift in energy from the cosmic astrology. Shut the fuck up. Okay, I don’t want to hear that some energy shift is coming from the alignment of the moon and the fucking thing. No, I don’t want to hear that right now. Okay. That’s what I don’t want to hear. Because right now that’s not helping me. told you I was grumpy. You might want to log out log back in or fast forward 15 seconds or something. So, yesterday was my birthday. By the time you’re listening to this, it will have been last week was my birthday. And I’m 44 now and I have to tell you I don’t look a day over 43 but I’m pumped. Oh my god.

04:16

Jackson just got it like a second too late. But if I had a great birthday, and this is me, Michael don’t wait till the last minute to buy my birthday present. The kids come in on the morning of might yesterday morning with coffee happy birthday, mom. You know they love your birthday more than you do. Kids. So cute. And Olivia comes in. She flopped down on my bed and she goes, Daddy took me to anthropology last night to get your birthday present. But they were closed because he waited to the last minute. I’m like, of course he did. Anyway, what else is going on in the world? Twitter change their retweet thing? I hate it. Nobody asked for that. We have been asking for an edit button on Twitter for 12 years or however long 10 years, whatever. Nobody asked for you to do some weird thing with the retweet. Did you not hear us screaming edit button? And then who nobody asked for that.

Jackson

The edit button is controversial though, because you could tweet something and then retweet it. And then someone can edit their tweet so that you retweeted something bad.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Oh, because then you’re saying someone could be like, what? George Washington was a terrible president. And you’re like, hell yeah, it was awful. retweet. And then they go, oops, I meant to say not. And then well, oh, so what you got to do a little housekeeping. Go back and fucking delete a tweet. Big deal.

Jackson

Well, that’s already the case. If you made a mistake, you can delete the tweet and retweet it. You don’t even edit button.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

No, I want an edit button. I’m sorry. If it’s controversial. I just people make mistakes and 140 characters. Okay.

Jackson

280 now.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

What?

Jackson  06:00

280 for a little while, yeah.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Wait a minute. What in the dippity dog are you talking about? Everybody goes to phones to check Twitter immediately. It went from 140 to 280. Wait, I think you’re right. Holy crap. Yep. You were right. Okay, well, you learn something new every day. And they canceled one of my favorite shows on Netflix. And I’m so sad. It’s called TEENAGE BOUNTY HUNTERS. I loved it so much. It’s like mindless television. But I absolutely loved it. I thought the casting was brilliant on the two girls, if you have not watched it, and you’re listening to this podcast, you’re going the teenage what it’s called TEENAGE BOUNTY HUNTERS. Just know, if you go to Netflix to watch it, they canceled it. So, you won’t get another season. But I absolutely loved it. It was like one of those shows that you just watch. And it takes you away from the world, the debates, the flies on people’s heads, the frickin, you know, stimulus checks, we’re not getting the, I don’t know, foreign extra Chinese bank accounts. I can’t even keep up with what’s happening. Because every day it’s so polarizing, that I wouldn’t be surprised if it was the cause of so many people’s anxiety.

So ,I did find out that you can rent movie theaters now for like $99. And that’s awesome. And I really want to do that. So, if anyone wants to go to a movie with me, I think we should do that. And by the time you listen to this, I will probably Michael and I are officially under contract for our shore house in New Jersey, which is so exciting. We have to set up the inspection by the time we listen to this. Hopefully that will all be set up and we’ll be on our way. As of now we’re set to close December 11. And I couldn’t be more excited, literally about anything. This week on TELL ME WHAT TO DO, we’re going to talk about forgiveness. I’ve wanted to talk about this topic because I think it is one of the things that is equally as important. As difficult as it is to do. And I can’t think of anything else. That is as important to learn. That is as difficult to learn to do. Maybe walking Okay, fine. swallowing, said your husband. Ha! And I know like I’m supposed to be profound and offer you some really like thoughtful thoughts about forgiveness, but I want to just tell you, that I am I blame like my grudges on my culture. My nationality. That’s bullshit. I shouldn’t do that not all Italians are assholes like me, but I sometimes just don’t fucking want to forgive.

08:46

Okay. I know it’s what God calls me to do I forgiving other people. I know it’s healing. I know it’s freeing. I know it’s better for me. It probably makes your skin better makes you skinnier blah, blah, blah, blah. Sometimes I just don’t fucking want to. I just don’t. But I do. But I don’t. Does that make sense? It does, right? Like forgiveness is Grace. And Grace is one of the most important skills that God asks us to hone in on. How many times do we ask God for grace? Geez, Louise? 50 times a day. So, I put out the back call for people who are struggling with forgiveness and to be honest with you. I think it was two weeks ago, a week and a half ago. My mother told me I was her greatest disappointment. Yeah, yep. And I thought wow, how easy is your life been, if I’m your greatest disappointment, like can I have your fucking life please? I’m your greatest disappointment. Amazing. And I love that you decided to tell me that like thank you so much.

10:00

For being so fucking immature. And not having the tools to deal with whatever disappointment you feel that you felt you needed to tell me that I was your greatest disappointment. In fact, I believe you also told my husband in front of my children who now think you’re the mean grandma. So, you’re welcome. And do you know how hard you had to work to be the mean grandma against Michael’s mom, who, by the way, is very loving, but like super Southern and like, cold, not cold, but like cold, right? And I don’t even feel bad anymore about keeping the secrets from the world about the fact that you say I’m your greatest disappointment like, are you fucking kidding me? Ha, ha, I went to therapy and worked my ass off to forgive my mother for giving me fucking 18 eating disorders and calling me an elephant when I was in sixth grade. And I’m your greatest disappointment.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

In times like this. I wish I had a dick. You know why Jackson?

Jackson

Why?

Jaime Primak Sullivan

So, I could tell somebody to go suck it. And for those of you listening right now going, there’s no way her mother really said that to her. I will screenshot the text. And right now, I don’t want to forgive her for saying that. And she may not even want my forgiveness. That’s the thing. But then she also sent me a birthday card, which is like a peace offering. But like is it? Is it? I feel like in the mom daughter world, which is a weird matrix of like unhealthy relationships. It is like in that matrix. It’s a peace offering. But anyway, forgiveness, you know, guys, what, what does Confucius say about forgiveness? I feel like there’s 9 million like memes in the world about forgiveness. And here are some of the things that people say, “The weak can never forgive, forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.” Oh, shut up. “In the shadows of my hurt, forgiveness feels like a decision to reward my enemy, but in the shadows of the cross forgiveness is merely a gift from one undeserving soul to another.” Okay, now I actually believe in that, can I read that again to you? Because that is how I feel. So, who said this? Andy Stanley, I don’t know who you are. But I really like you in the shadow of my hurt. So, where I am right now, forgiveness feels like a decision to reward my enemy. Holy shit. That is so well written and stated, but in the shadow of the cross. You know what that means? forgiveness is merely a gift from one undeserving soul to another. Andy, bruh. Let me buy you a beer. Because you have Nananananailed it, friend. Wow, that is really great. Okay, I really love that. So, I’m gonna forgive others, not because they deserve forgiveness, but because you deserve peace, man, do I? Do I? After all the mistakes we’ve made, how can we still not forgive others for their mistakes? I don’t fucking know. I don’t know. Like Jamie, tell me what to do. I don’t know. Because they actually don’t know.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Let’s take a quick break, and then we’ll get to questions.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

Okay, we’re back. And I appreciate you guys. I truly appreciate you guys. listening to my advertisers, and all of the stuff that you listen to because they make this show possible. And I’m really, really grateful for them. Our first question is from Nicole, who emailed us and asked this: “Jamie, how do I forgive my mother, even though she did everything she could to keep me safe, including kidnapping me. For the molestation that occurred the first three years of my life by my father. She did nothing wrong, but I find myself being so angry with her in the last 10 years of my life, and I’m 44 years old. How can I redirect this?” Well, first of all, let me say that I am so sorry for what you went through as a child. Full stop. Second, can I say what a fucking badass mom you have that she figured out what was going on? And did every single thing she could to keep you safe including kidnapping you. You realize that some like Hollywood shit, right? That’s like, amazing. Okay, so how lucky Are you that your mother was like, Oh, hell no Over my dead body. I’m not a therapist, right, but I play one on a podcast. And I would say that you are probably angry with her because you have not gotten to be angry with the person who hurt you. And she’s the closest person to you. And we always, when we can’t direct our anger towards what is making us angry, we take it out on those closest to us, right?

15:35

So, when your kid has a bad day at school, and they’re frustrated with their teacher, and they can’t be disrespectful to their teacher, they come home, and they kind of shit on us, right? And I’m like, what is your problem? And then I realized, oh, okay, you probably had an issue with your teacher today or didn’t do something you were supposed to do, and you can’t take it out on Miss Cairo or whomever. So, you’re taking it out on me. My guess is you have not properly been able to deal with the anger you feel towards your father. And it’s easiest to take it out on your mother. How can you redirect it, you’re going to have to get really honest with yourself. You’re gonna have to check yourself. When you start to feel angry with her, you have to go like whoa, this woman, like legit did some Indiana Jones shit to help me. She uprooted her entire life to make sure that my needs came first.

So, I need to really find other outlets. I don’t care if you have to scream into your pillow. If you have to take boxing classes. If you have to do acupuncture, if you have to go to therapy, whatever you have to do go run I don’t know. But this woman deserves gratitude. And this anger is misguided. I’m not saying you don’t have a right to feel angry. I’m not saying that you don’t have a right to walk around resentful, or mad, or whatever. But it is misguided. You are directing it towards the wrong person. So, your anger is justified. It’s just where you’re putting it is the wrong place. Right? If you cannot address your father, you’ve got to find ways to redirect the anger. Because your mom, I mean, she’s a hero. If what you’re telling me is true, I love her. And I would gladly trade you if you want to trade no trade backs, no trade backs. But I just love you. I want you to know that I love you. And I’m so sorry that you are struggling to heal the holes in your emotional walls from what you experienced. Because, you know, I was I don’t like the word molested. I was sexually manipulated and gaslit by someone in fourth grade. And I get angry sometimes I get resentful and I want to attack her but like I know it’s not her fault because she was only doing what she was taught and

18:17

But you know what? Life is messy. So, fucking messy. And none of us come out on we’re all going to heaven. Like with 9 million band aids over our soul. I got a great dad. And by the way, he was great. I’m not even just like immortalizing him because he died. He was phenomenal. Yeah, you can’t win them all, you know. Okay, we have another listener question. This is from an anonymous listener who has been with her partner for 17 years. Two years ago, he had an emotional affair with his assistant. She says: “I thought I had forgiven him for this. But the pandemic has a stuck at home working together, teaching our kids together. And I feel all of this unresolved hurt. Some of it is from before the affair resentment about him putting his job before his family. Then the affair came and it broke something inside me. So now I sit here reliving the trauma he caused that I have locked away and I’m trying to figure out how to forgive myself for allowing it for so long. And to truly forgive him and move forward. Any real talk would be amazing.” Well, I’ll tell you this your sentence I thought I had forgiven him but the pandemic has stuck at home working together. And I feel all this unresolved hurt, right because you did not forgive him. That’s why.

You pretended you did because you didn’t want your family to break up. So, you pushed it aside and compartmentalized it without ever really working through it. And now you’re forced to stare at it in the mirror and you have nowhere else to look. You’ve got to look straight ahead, because it’s there in front of you every day all day and here’s the thing, there are no fucking shortcuts. There are no shortcuts in forgiveness if you don’t do the work. And you simply compartmentalize the hurt, or you avoid it, or whatever, it will come back. It’s why Hollywood makes movies about holidays, you know, holidays, and families come together. And all of a sudden, there’s a scene at the table where someone says something and someone else says, well, you always this and you did this, but and it’s all the work the family doesn’t do. It all comes out over Thanksgiving dinner, and you know, that’s why those movies will forever work in Hollywood because they’re relatable.

20:40

People don’t want to do the work. And with affairs, we really don’t want to do the work, because that means our family is in jeopardy. And we want to act like it’s not. And also, you’re going to hate me for this. But why was your husband having an emotional affair? Oh, my God, Jaime, you’re blaming her for the fucking affair? No, not blaming her. I’m asking a question. Why was your husband having an emotional affair? What emotional needs? Did he feel? We’re not being met? And if you don’t know, it’s because you haven’t done the work. And if he told you the emotional needs that weren’t being met; did he tell you before the affair started? Were you aware that there were things in the marriage that weren’t working for him? Were you doing the work then? Because a lot of times we find out our spouses have an affair and we’re so fucking horrified. Oh, my God. And then the truth is, the writing was on the wall for months.

Men cheat because they can, women cheat because they have to. Men have affairs, because they have to. There is a difference. Okay, so the same reason a man has an affair is the same reasons why women cheat. Women don’t go on a business trip and like meet a guy at the bar and fucking, the way men can do that and compartmentalize it right? When a woman cheats, typically, it is to have an affair. Because she is neglected. She is unsatisfied. She’s been put on the back burner. Her husband chooses work over her. He doesn’t touch her anymore. Whatever it is, when a man has an affair, whether it be emotional, physical meant whatever, it’s because he has been neglected. So where does that neglection come from? I’m not faulting you. I’m just trying to understand. And do you forgive yourself for letting your marriage get to that point? Because satisfied men don’t have affairs? Satisfied men do cheat though. Totally different. totally different thing. So, like a perfectly happy satisfied man at home will still get a blowjob. Why? Because he can.

23:16

Because he goes like hell. Yeah. One last blow job my wife has to give this is amazing. Doesn’t mean he’s not happy doesn’t mean he doesn’t love you doesn’t mean he. He could be the happiest husband in the world. Out of 10 men 10 happily married men 7 will take the blow job. 8 if he really thinks he’s not gonna get caught. But out of 10 happily married men, maybe one wades into an affair and most likely, he regrets it when he realizes how far it’s gone. It’s not what he wanted. So, for a man to have a true emotional affair, he was empty, he was empty. Now y’all know how I feel about physical affairs. I’m not leaving for that. But if Michael had an emotional affair with someone, it would hurt me. Because I try so hard to connect with him. I work hard to be available to him to talk to him to understand you know, Michael is like talking to a cabinet.

You got to work hard to get it open. Once you do. It’s full of all kinds of cool information but like the Lord have mercy and the fucking lock combination changes every month. That’s what it’s like being married to Michael. So, if Michael had an emotional affair, I don’t know how I would forgive that. Because I’m the one that works so hard on the emotional relationship. Now if I had an affair, emotional affair. Michael would probably laugh. Because he would be like, of course you did. I’m not emotionally available to you 86% of the time you need me. I mean, what the fuck do people expect? I’m getting off on a tangent now this poor girl is listening to this podcast right now. Okay, well, great. Can you tell me what the fuck to do? I’m trying.

You got to figure out why your man had an emotional affair first. You got to back it all the way up. Like you’re mad at him. But did you ever stop to think maybe he’s mad at you? You know what I’m saying? Like, did you ever stop to think that maybe he’s mad that your marriage got to a point where he needed to go out and get filled emotionally? Do you know how little emotion a man has to be getting at home for him to have a fucking emotional affair when his dick literally leads the way? Literally, it is biologically his impulse to spread his seed. And the man went to look for an emotional affair. Y’all Some may, right? Jackson’s nodding like a motherfucker over here. Like if y’all could see Jackson. He’s like, he’s nodding so hard. He may have vertigo. Because am I wrong? Or am I right? Thank you.

26:18

Men go out and fight because like, hey, because I can but going to look for a woman to hold your hand and tell you it’s gonna be okay in life. What the fuck is going on? That’s why I would smack the shit at a Mica. I wish he would. I really do. Because I try so hard to pour into that man. It’s like pouring milk on concrete. I don’t even know if that’s the thing. So, I think anonymous, I love first of all, I do love you. I know. It sounds like I’m very like, you did say I would like some real talk. And that’s what I’m trying to do. We got to get to the real bottom of this. Your husband was angry with you first. He was resentful of you first. He was hurt by you first. So yes. Did he make a bad decision to have an emotional affair? Sure. But he didn’t know what else to do. My guess is he sent up a million white flags SOS, I’m not happy. And you just pushed on through, like Jim Morrison break on through to the other side. I can’t even, I’m raising kids. I’m doing my thing. I can’t stop right now. I got to keep going. And I understand that feeling. I do.

But guess what, I’m guessing you’re not the only one that has to do some forgiving. He’s probably got to forgive you for whatever forsaken he felt prior to that affair. And a lot of times, we don’t want to own our part. Once there’s the fair, we’re like, fuck it. It’s all you now buddy. Well, that’s not entirely true. If you want to fix it for real. I say you get really honest. Strip it down. turn inward, roll forward, roll inward in your bed. I’m telling you when your hearts are face to face or heart to heart. It really does make a difference. lay in bed quietly look at each other. And say to him make me understand. How, where did I fail you? And how can you forgive me, for leaving you alone emotionally and putting you in a position to seek somebody outside this marriage? So, you can forgive me and we can heal there so I can forgive you and we can heal there. You can’t put the cart before the horse.

You just can’t. And I know some of you were thinking Oh, you got to be kidding me. Now he got to forgive her for his affair. Oh no. Not for the affair but for what led to it. Yep, absolutely. Because I’ll tell you right now Michael and I have had some knockdown drag outs, knockdown drag outs where I’m like oh no sir you don’t get to have to forgive me you know throw it in my face that you have to get no I got to forgive you first. And by the way, it’s vice versa. There have been times when Michael’s like sit down I’m like oh shit there’s not many but there have been a few where I’m like oh my god Lord I put a dumb push this man too far. This is it because I’ll tell you right now push comes to shove, I’m not Michael’s not leaving me I’ll be, I love Fisher in WEDDING CRASHERS, I’ll find you like I love that man like, no sir. So, when he tells me to sit down or my ass sits the chair so damn fast. I am sitting sir.

29:51

And I sit up straight to because when I know when I’ve done wrong and I’ve pushed him too far and he has that deep voice to oh my god too much. So, I would say to you, the forgiveness has to start on his end. Because then you’ll hear his truth. And when you hear his truth, you will have an understanding about why he did what he did. And when you can understand why you’ll understand it wasn’t about you. The way you think it was, it wasn’t that you’re not pretty enough or not sexy. You know, all the things that the devil tries to lie to us about. That’s not it. It was a him thing. But then it was a y’all thing.

Jaime Primak Sullivan

All right. Before the last question. Let’s take a quick break.

Jaime Primak Sullivan  30:59

Okay, we’re back. Okay, so our last question is from another anonymous listener who says: “Jamie, I broke our marital vows during a slump in our marriage, where it felt like we were living completely separate lives. It was a mistake. But in the long run, it made our marriage stronger, or so I thought. My husband says he has forgiven me, but I doubt that from the way he treats me. My question is, how do I forgive myself, and feel like I deserve happiness.” So, self-forgiveness can be so hard, because we are our own worst enemies. And we’re stuck inside ourselves all the time. And so, you know, when you want someone else to forgive you, you can get physical space, you can go for a drive, you can move into another house for a while you can, you know, whatever, when it’s you. You can’t go anywhere. All right, let me think of something I’ve done.

So, Michael doesn’t ask a lot from me. But back around the Jersey Bell time, he did ask me not to mention certain members of his family. Just don’t talk about them. Not on coffee talk, not in your book, not on your anywhere, just don’t talk about my family, don’t talk about them. And I thought I was slick and creative and being really vague about stories, but people are not dumb. And I didn’t care that they were angry. But what I did care about was that Michael was disappointed in me and felt betrayed by me. And I could see it in the way he was acting towards me and the way he was responding to me. And I was angry at myself. Not for them, because I didn’t give literally a rat’s ass. But for him, because I love him so much. And I really felt like I was like, Damn, Jamie, like, why can’t you ever just you’re your own worst enemy. Just shut your mouth, you know. And I beat myself up and beat myself up. And then I realized, look, this is a character flaw that I obviously need to work on and what is God trying to show me that my actions have repercussions.

And God wants me to sit in this feeling, not forever. He doesn’t want me to beat myself up forever. He doesn’t want me to be self-loathing or hate myself. But he does want me to sit in the repercussions of my actions and understand that this hurt my husband, and that affects our family. And what are you trying to teach me? God. And so, what I can say to you is sitting with God and what he’s trying to teach us and what he’s trying to tell us was very helpful for me, because in that, I was like, oh, okay, you’re trying to teach me something, and bla bla, bla, bla, bla. And then I could forgive myself. I was like, Alright, cut yourself some slack. There was a lesson here. This was a timeout. And you’ve learned and now you understand that even when you don’t care about A, it has a ripple effect to B and so here we are, and you know, whatever. So, learn the lesson and then set yourself free. And here’s the thing. You say you doubt that he’s forgiven you, by the way he treats you? Go by the way someone acts not by what they say. And then I would challenge you, if you doubt that he’s forgiven you. What are you doing about it?

Jaime Primak Sullivan  34:48

Are you guys go into therapy? Do you ignore the topic Do you never bring it up because you’re afraid it’s gonna upset him like, you got to do the work. You have to do the work. You can can’t just hope that it goes away. And if he can’t forgive you, and if he continues to treat you poorly, you got to go. Because God did not put you on this earth to hang on the cross. He already did that. Jesus already did that for us, you are not meant to hang on a cross for anybody. And that is what we do. We sacrifice ourselves, our happiness, our peace, whatever, because we were martyrs to the emotional crimes we’ve committed against people, because they want us to live in emotional purgatory, fuck that. Your God did not create you to fulfill a fucking prophecy that Jesus already came to fail. It’s not your job, you’re not the Messiah, nobody has a right to punish you. So, you apologize, and you mean it and you change the behavior. So, it isn’t manipulation, and you mean it, and you put your money where your mouth is, and you do the work. And if they don’t want to forgive you, fuck it, cut your losses, tell them you’re sorry, you love them, but you have to go. Because it is a greater sin against God, to allow somebody to nail you to a cross and leave you there than it is to walk away from your marriage.

Because you hanging on a cross goes directly against the fulfillment of the Scripture, and you know it, and my producers right now we’re going what fuck is this. And I’m telling you, this is the truth. God sent His only Son, so that we may have life, not just physical life, but emotional life, and mental life, and you deserve emotional peace. And if someone is punishing you continuously, after you have asked for forgiveness, and they cannot give it to you, and they more importantly, they are not willing to do the work. You have got to go. Because anytime you stay after that is a direct sin against God and is directly against the fulfillment of his scripture. You cannot be a believer and live in emotional purgatory at the same time. You absolutely cannot. Nope. I don’t know why you should listen to me because I’m passionate about the things I’m passionate about because I love you, okay?

And that is what I want you to know more than anything. I love you, and you are not alone in this. And you deserve to be happy. So, if you ever have to wonder Do you deserve forgiveness? Or do you deserve happiness? The answer is abso-fucking-lutely. And I will work on forgiving my mom again for the 957th fucking time. And I will continue to question why it is so hard for us. But I love her. And I want it to work and I continuously subject myself to another try. I’m like Stevie fucking be “one more try I didn’t know how much I loved you.” Sometimes it’s the emotional blind leading the emotional blind with us. But you know what, we love each other. And we’re here and we show up for each other day after day, week after week. But I love you guys very much. And what I can tell you about forgiveness is it’s the hardest, most important thing you’ll ever do. And when people do something wrong, you got to work hard to not forget all the things they do right because like that first guy Andy, I like so much said. We’re just undeserving people trying to figure out other undeserving people. I love you guys so much. Thank you for listening, I mean that and please share this podcast with every single person you know.

CREDITS

39:24

TELL ME WHAT TO DO is a production of Lemonada Media. The show is produced by Chrissy Pease, and associate produced by Claire Jones. It’s edited by Ivan Kuraev music is by Dan Molad. Jessica Cordova Kramer, Stephanie Wittels Wachs and Jaime Primak Sullivan, are our executive producers, rate and review us and follow us at @lemonadamedia on all your favorite social platforms. Of course, you can follow me at Jaime Primak Sullivan on Facebook or at @jaimepsullivan on Instagram. If you have any questions for me that you want me to answer on the show, give me a call at  833-453-6662