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Description

The murder of George Floyd was shocking and changed all of us — regardless of our racial identities. For nonbinary activist, actor, and writer Brandon Kyle Goodman, it was a moment for them to find their voice. In the wake of George Floyd’s murder, Brandon posted a video on Instagram addressed to his white friends who were reaching out, asking them what they should do. That video went viral, and Brandon continued to use their social media platform to give space for Black trauma AND Black joy, modeling a way for others to express themselves, to learn, to be heard, and to find their voice. This episode’s practice is about finding spaces of belonging, and how to use your voice for social change. Even when you’re afraid.

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Resources from the show

• Watch Brandon’s viral video to his white friends here
• Read “The Gifts of Imperfection” by Brene Brown

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Transcript

SPEAKERS

Claire, Brandon Goodman

Claire  00:09

Hi, I’m Claire Bidwell Smith. Welcome to NEW DAY. Have you ever felt like you didn’t belong? Have you ever been the person who stepped in to include someone else? Have you ever sat by when you knew you could have taken action? Have you ever been afraid to speak up? But did it anyway? It’s these moments that transform us, individually and collectively. But what is that moment? That sliver of time when you either shrink in fear or rise to the occasion? What shapes it and who do you become as a result? My guest today, actor, nonbinary activist and writer, Brandon Goodman has had many of those moments. But one in particular last year changed who they are today. It was a shared moment, when we were all witness to all part of all responsible for. But when George Floyd was murdered, Brandon Goodman found their voice and shared it with the world and a video that went viral. And the conversation you’re about to hear about how Brandon did that is an emotional one. And perhaps the most meaningful conversation I’ve had to date on this podcast. I think this is not only because of the work that Brandon is doing in the world, but because they’re so willing to reveal their own vulnerabilities in order to pave the way for others. In today’s interview, you’re going to hear us talk about racism, activism, what it’s like to grow up as a Black person in America, and what it means to just want to belong. But what you’re also going to hear about is what it means to find the courage to speak up. I hope you’ll listen carefully.

Claire 

Hi, Brandon, welcome.

Brandon Goodman 

Hi, thank you for having me.

Claire 

I’m really excited and also a little nervous. I’m fangirling.

Brandon Goodman 

And like, I don’t be nervous, we’re gonna have so much fun.

Claire  02:01

Well, I start every episode by asking my guests the same question, which is, how are you? But like, how are you really?

Brandon Goodman

Yes, I’m going through it a little bit. I got back from New York a week ago, and I hadn’t been home from New York, I hadn’t been home since before the pandemic, so almost like two years. And it was really fun. And I was just really, really social. And then I got back and I had noticed like a shift in my mood. And I had therapy yesterday. And she encouraged me to not push it away, or run away from it, but like to sit in it very good therapist. Seven Years Strong. So I’m taking off the next few days to just kind of give myself a little mental health moment.

Claire 

You know, you wear so many hats. And I was looking through some of your videos yesterday and reading some of your interviews. And I just kept having this question in my head, like, who were you at 12.

Brandon Goodman 

Oh, I grew up Black, queer, non-binary. Although I wasn’t wrestling with that at the time, I think that gay was at the forefront of the conversation for me. And so that came with a lot of being ostracized, a lot of bullying, a lot of not belonging, you know, I think there was always this like hunger and this search to find belonging. And I think that that became my mission, which was I never wanted anyone who came in contact with me to not feel like they didn’t belong. Because I understood how painful that was.

Claire 

This idea of you wanting everybody to belong, where did that come from?

Brandon Goodman

I think it probably the first rejection I experienced was my father, right? My father wasn’t around. And so when I understood what fathers were, and that people had them and had mom and dad in the house, that was kind of my first search for belonging, because it was the first time that I felt like out of place, I was like going to school and everybody had mom and dad and I had mom and grandma. And so it made me feel like an outcast. So I think that’s probably the first time that that search for belonging began. And then as I got older, and I started, you know, reckoning with my queerness, specifically, my sexual orientation of being gay, and my femininity as well, being far more effeminate than the other boys and not kind of fitting into what masculinity is. Which, you know what, I’ll take that back. I think that came first before there was a reckoning around sexuality. And I even knew what gay was, there was. So clearly I was effeminate. And that was so clearly not what boys were to, quote unquote, be. And then once like gay became a word that everyone understood there was that additional rejection now from both the boys and the girls because no one wanted to hang around somebody who might be gay. So I think my life was just a series of that and then I found acting I found a lot of gay kids too.

Claire 

I was gonna ask you where you began to find acceptance, like where were the pockets and people in your life where you found acceptance, so that must have been one of them?

Brandon Goodman

Yeah, I think the drama club was like the first time that I felt like, oh, I’m good at this thing. And so even though people might have had their feelings about my femininity, or what they perceived my sexuality to be because at that time, I was not even thinking about it publicly in that way. They honored that I was good at this thing. And so the rest of it kind of fell away.

Claire

You spoke about trauma, being some of the initial informing of who you became. There’s personal trauma, but then there’s also cultural trauma. Are there moments that you can think of during childhood or adolescence that were traumatic, just from a cultural or public standpoint?

Brandon Goodman 

Oh, for sure. Certainly, you know, the first time I got followed in a store, I remember, I was 14 years old. It was actually my freshman year of high school. So I was in Georgia, I wasn’t followed in Georgia, but I was going to school in Georgia, 9/11 had just happened. And so my first-time coming home was for Thanksgiving. And I was home for like two weeks, and I went to one of the local pharmacies, to go pick up my grandmother’s medication. And I got followed by the security guard. And at first, I didn’t know that that’s what was happening, because I, you know, had never experienced it before, and just kind of like walked in. And, you know, the prescription wasn’t ready. So I was just like, you know, as a 14-year-old, like killing time, in a store, like going to the magazines. And then every aisle I went down, I noticed that he was at the top of the aisle.

Brandon Goodman  06:43

And I at first again, like didn’t think anything of it. But then after enough times, I was like, wait, what is happening? Is he following me? And then I started, like, purposely going to different aisles and seeing if he was there, and that obviously confirmed that he was following me. And then I finally walked up to him. And code switched right to this thing, where I was like, hi, sir, how are you? I’m looking for the pencils and pens. Can you tell me where those are? And he immediately like, softened, told me where it was, and then left me alone. But like, how traumatic is a 14-year-old to one know how to do that? Somehow was already being trained my mother, very much training me, you know, hands out of your pockets, like, you know, somebody approaches you like, articulate every fucking continent.

Brandon Goodman 

And I didn’t know I knew how to do that until the moment and I also didn’t realize the kind of lasting effect it had on me until like, now I’m like, untangling it in my 30s. But it’s like, oh, my understanding is that like, I am perceived a threat. And as soon as I walk in, doesn’t matter what school I go to, doesn’t matter what my mom does doesn’t matter how good of a person I am. Just because I’m in this black body, I have to be prepared, that I might get followed or that something worse might happen. And I have to know how to navigate that situation. And that, I think, is an experience that I think any black person has. And so that has nothing to do with personal trauma. That is the cultural trauma of the world weak system and the country weak system.

Claire  08:22

Okay, so all of these pieces are now stacking up for me and kind of leading to this viral Instagram video that you made last year. Can you tell us about that video?

Brandon Goodman 

Yeah, you know, it’s the only video that I’ve never watched since I put it up. It was, it’s really, I literally even when I see it, like pop up somewhere, somebody like randomly liked it, like my heart viscerally starts to like, pound, and also the tank top. I finally like to give away that tank top. Every time I take time, like I can’t like I just have such a visceral connection. But basically what happened was that morning, or that afternoon, I had watched the video of George Floyd being murdered, which is something that I’d never do. I mean, as many names as we knew before, George, I never watched the videos, I never watched anything I don’t. It’s something that I can’t do. But I was at work. And obviously, we’re in the middle of this pandemic. And so we were virtual, so we were all on Zoom. And it was a lunch break. And for whatever reason I got on my phone and like five minutes before we’re supposed to come back from lunch. I watched the video and then went back to work for the next three hours and was grappling with the fact that no one had said anything about it.

Brandon Goodman 

And there were so many reasons that could be not everyone saw it was it had just like happened and you know, depending on people’s access to social media or what they do with their time they may not have known about it, but that was wearing on me so when the day ended, I just had all this shit to say, yeah. But I didn’t want to like call each of my white friends. Like, hey, I want to say this thing to you like I was, that was not what I wanted to do. So I was just like, I’m gonna make a video, and I’m gonna put it up, and my White friends will see it. And then that’ll be it. And at that time, I think I have like 3000 followers. So truly, it was intended for my white friends who I know are good people who I know are trying to do right, but like, this thing is happening. We had Ahmaud, Breonna, now George, like, I need them to like wake the fuck up.

Claire  10:34

And for anyone who hasn’t seen or heard it, can you say a little bit about what it was you wanted your white friends to know.

Brandon Goodman 

I wanted them to know, and I, you know, again, I haven’t watched the video, but I remember wanting them to know what it is to receive this information as a black person and still have to move through your day like to witness the murder of another black person and know that is only because they are Black, that they are being murdered. And that no end there it’s happening by the hands of police enforcement who we are taught are supposed to protect you. And you have to download that information and still show up 120% at your job, that a lot of times you’re the only Black person at. So there’s already that pressure of like, I’m the only black person or one of the only black people and I’m representing other Black people, you know, this conversation I’m sure you’ve heard we’re like, as a Black people, we there is a I can’t say for every Black person. But I think as a community, and I’m going to speak broadly, we’re not a monolith.

Brandon Goodman 

But there is an understanding of the collective, right, there is, you can’t do that, because it will look bad on all of us. Or the best way to describe it is whenever anything happens on the news, you hear your grandmother or your mother go, I hope they’re not Black, I hope they’re not Black, because you understand that if the perpetrator is black, the repercussions happen across the board, whereas white people, you know, as many white men who have done some horrific things, no one goes, oh, well, all White men are bad, right? Or all white people are terrible. You go, oh, that person was suffering from some, you know, there’s an excuse made for that perpetrator. So I wanted one of my white friends to understand that the emotional toll it takes to exist in this world as a Black person knowing that at any moment, it could be you. And so I wanted to make that clear in that video.

Claire  12:31

One of the other messages you had in that video, too, was to kind of own our racism as White people that we’re all a little bit if not a lot racist.

Brandon Goodman

Yes. And I think there’s this thing that America like does not want to and I’ll say specifically white Americans don’t want to acknowledge their part in a racist system, right? So just because you’re not lynching somebody, literally, just because you’re not saying the N word doesn’t mean that you don’t benefit from a racist system. It doesn’t mean that you aren’t fully profiting from a racist system. I think, you know, when we talk about redlining, I remember I did a podcast called Do The Work. And the educator Debbie Irving was talking about redlining, you know, the redlining is this fucking system that was built that basically said, like, this neighborhood, which usually Black neighborhoods aren’t gonna get any kind of support in your housing. But you know, White people, if you’re in that neighborhood, yeah, you can get your mortgage, I can get this loan. It’s easy. It’s easy. And she was explaining that I think her grandfather had come back from the war. And there were these exceptions, made for vets to support them in being able to buy a home, but it wasn’t extended to the Black vets, right. And so even though her grandfather did not make that rule, he benefited from the racist rule. So that’s the thing that we have to be able to look at is like, even though I’m not the one making the rules, I’m still benefiting from that. And so what am I going to do about that? Am I going to ignore that and just like, let it perpetuate, or am I going to say, oh, this is fucked up. And what I want my white friends to say is oh, this is fucked up and I got to do everything with my privilege and my power to fix that. I can’t just be in my little suburban neighborhood with my like, couple Black friends and be like, I care Black Lives Matter, but then continue to benefit from the system. I have to be willing to get my hands dirty and dismantle this thing.

Claire  14:55

So, what was it like to put that video out and then receive everything that you did all the attention. I remember the time of George Floyd, several of my Black friends telling me that they just felt barraged by White people being like, what can I do? Or, you know, just all of that, what was that like for you? What happened? Tell us what happened. After you put that video out?

Brandon Goodman 

It is a lot. That’s very generous of you though. Did it take a toll?

Brandon Goodman

I put that first video out. And then, you know, the next morning, I think it was at like 60,000 views. And I have like, amass maybe something like an additional like 10,000 followers. And I remember looking at my phone, seeing what was happening, and like, collapsing on my coffee table, because I felt my ancestors. And I felt my grandmother really strongly. Because for me, it was like, I felt the presence of just my people who had passed. And because my question was, do I run into this and continue to speak and continue ever? Or do I run away from this and be like, okay, I made that video, bye, I’m like out. And I really heard clearly, like, go forward. Because clearly, I have a way of articulating things that people are able to hear it. And more importantly, there are so many Black people who don’t want to talk and shouldn’t have to, and shouldn’t have to explain themselves. So if I have the capacity to explain this thing, so that they don’t have to so they can just be like, please go look at this video, please go look at that post. Yeah, then let me do it. And so that’s why I kept making the videos and kept going forward so that, you know, my Black friends wouldn’t have to do that emotional labor, because it’s a lot.

Brandon Goodman 

1,000%. I think there was adrenaline in the beginning. And it was just like, Okay, let’s say this, let’s do this. Let’s handle this. And then after a few months, where you’re like, ph, I’m just talking about trauma like, and I’m just unpacking my personal trauma, and articulating it like turning into palatable content. One thing that we don’t talk about is, and it was something I’ve experienced, I put out one video where like, I was what I would say, passionate, which I should be about anti-racism. And one of the comments from a White person who I’m sure was well, meaning was like, if you say it like this, you know, then people won’t want to do the work. And like this is so like, you know, I think what you’re saying is good, but like, we can’t hear it because you’re so angry, or whatever it was. And I was like, oh, this is so interesting, that I have to be palatable in order for something to be received. When literally, I’m saying we’re being killed. And so if I want to scream and yell and say, fuck White people, I have every right to do that. And to post that if I want to, like we are in a dire situation, we’re screaming for our lives. And yet, people will use that as an excuse to not do their work. Because, well, you’re just being so me. Like, oh, which was infuriating.

Claire  18:10

I’m thinking about this conversation I had a few weeks ago on this podcast with an emotional intelligence guy named Mark Brackett and we had this discussion that I was obsessed with about anger. And he had made the distinction that the difference, the anger gets misinterpreted, because it’s about two things and people mix them up. It’s either something you’re disappointed in, your expectations weren’t met, or something unjust has happened. And so you know, that’s right there yours as an example, you know, you’re not disappointed. Something unjust happened. Yeah. And your anger is valid and warranted.

Brandon Goodman

Yes. But we have been indoctrinated and trained to see a black body and anger as threat, right? You’ve been trained that when a Black woman is in passion, that she’s angry, and she’s a threat. And so then you dismiss it, or worse than being dismissed, you quote unquote, handle it, right? George Floyd gets handled, quote, unquote, murdered, right? And that’s why I think that it’s like, I want people to understand the stakes of it. Like the idea that we have to measure our emotions, because the consequence is death, is murder is fucking crazy. And more trauma, more trauma to deal with more things to like, because now I’m like, making these videos and I’m going, okay, like, this thing pisses me off. But how do I say in a way so that my message gets across to the audience that I’m trying to reach? Which is not Black people. Black people know what this is. We know that I’m trying to reach White people and not necessarily racist White people because I said, my husband’s White. I don’t give a fuck about racist, people, they want to be racist, stay racist, but I am interested in the people who are like, I know that I have something to do. I just don’t know where to start.

Claire  20:00

Do you feel like it’s been effective? Have you seen any results of the work you’ve been doing?

Brandon Goodman 

I don’t I mean, you know, I’ll never know to what extent the impact is or isn’t. I think I’ve received messages from other friends who’ve said, one friend reached out and said, my best friend sent her video to her husband. And finally, he understood his privilege. And I was like, okay, great, like, well, that means something, right? If this straight white man suddenly understands his privilege.

Claire 

This was what it took, this was the thing that clicked for him.

Brandon Goodman 

Then I will keep saying it the way that I need to say it. And that’s why I also in the middle of the summer was like, every Black person on here speaking gets to speak how they want to speak. And for me, I might be like, an entryway because I’m quieter and gentler. Somebody else might need somebody who was a little more forceful, and, and passionate. And that’s okay, we all get to exist, and none of our messages are not valid because of how we’re presenting it. I think, however, a Black person wanted to present their feelings about what was going on was completely valid. And we needed a variety of voices and tones, and ways to speak about this thing so that we could reach a larger number of people.

Claire 

There’s been so many different conversations and ideas about what was different about George Floyd. And I’m curious what you think. And also, if you think there’s been any change since?

Brandon Goodman 

I think what was different about George Floyd was the pandemic, right? I think we can’t deny that everyone was at home, and could not look away, right? You’re at home, everyone’s fucking bored, trapped in their house. And this fucking terrible thing happened, and it’s on your phone. And everybody was on social media, because we’re bored. And so there was no way to not see this thing. I think that’s why I made that video; it was impossible to keep going to work. As if nothing happened. You know, it was Matthew, again, my husband’s White. And we talked about this, because we were like, you know, usually when a black person is murdered, I received that news. And I’m probably out in the world somewhere. And I received the news. And I processed that. And then I come home. Matthew was washed, we’re stuck together. So he’s watching me process this thing in real time, which I don’t think he’s ever experienced. And I think a lot of White partners or White roommates who had Black roommates or Black partners at home, were witnessing something that they had never been able to gain access to, which is that black people were processing this thing in real time. And it was just too much. It was just too much. It was like I’m already wiping down every surface in my house. Like I’m already locked myself in. I’m already navigating the fact that every day this man is on TV saying some fucked up shit. And now another person has been killed. That’s just like, how do you? How do you look away from that? And I think a lot of people were like, oh, we can’t actually look away from this.

Claire 

Yeah. Do you think there’s been any meaningful change since, there’s been change, like, I’m thinking there has been changed, but I’m wondering how much of it is meaningful? Or will you know, grow or be some kind of foundation of any sort?

Brandon Goodman 

Yeah. Yeah, it’s hard, right? Because I think there’s been more lip service than change. Obviously, there are deeper conversations happening. And so I don’t ever want to undercut the people who have made a shift and the places that have made a change because of last summer. But I also think that there are a lot of I mean, you know, right now, we’re dealing without saying names, but you know, there’s the transphobia that’s continuing to happen on a very public stage and in this, you know, comedian with this special and a network saying, you know, we stand by it, and kind of ignoring the firing of a Black trans employee, like, you’re like y’all said, Black Lives Matter. Right? And your, your, your trans employees, specifically, your Black trans employees are saying, hey, this thing hurts and is disrespectful, and you’re not listening. So it’s a lot of that energy. But I think you can’t deny that there’s been a lot of like, people who capitalized in that moment and said, we’re going to make the shift. I think I experienced this, you know, without saying any names. There were brands who reached out who wanted to work with me, but didn’t want to pay me. And it’s like, oh, interesting. So you want my Black face, my Black queer body out there promoting whatever but you’re not willing to pay but you just said Black Lives Matter, right? These things that they’re all surface. And so, you know, I’m…

Claire

Yeah, that’s my fear is that it’s so still so surface

Brandon Goodman 

The thing is that I’m not like disillusioned by this, it takes work to change a system and a lot of people who have power are gonna have to step down from their power. So I’m literally saying, hey, your and I can talk specifically in like Hollywood terms because that’s the business I’m in. But I’m like, hey, you’re the president and the CEO, and everyone that’s at the top of this network, they’re all White, and most of them are all straight, and most of them are all men, that’s gonna have to shift, right? Which means that half of y’all need to step down and make room for others. How do you tell somebody stepped down? And think that they’re actually going to, they’re not unless they are also invested in changing the system. And the reality is, they’re not actually invested in it. They hope that, well, if we add a little more programming, if we add a little bit of this, that it’ll look like we’re doing something. But then when you follow that pyramid up to the top, if there’s a shift up there, then the power is the same, right? The power is still a straight white men, or straight white men are still in charge. I think also, the other piece that I always talk about is, it’s all well and good to say, oh, we want to make sure that this crew or this cast or this whatever is half Black, or POC or queer by this, you know, year, but if you’re not gonna mentor us, if you’re not gonna, you know, put us under your wing and support us, then you’re just setting people up for failure. That takes it work and investment, right to be like, Oh, I value these diverse voices, I value Black voices. And so I’m going to invest, use my privilege to invest time and money to make sure that I’m empowering them. But right now, what’s happening is they’re still like, let’s make it look cute on the surface. But let’s keep a leash on it. So that, you know, we can yank it back when we need to.

Claire 

Well, how have you changed? Who are you now? I mean, George Floyd died over a year ago. You know, who are you now? Who do you identify as right now?

Brandon Goodman 

I am, I’m louder now, which I am grateful for. Because I think that I spent most of my life really trying to be liked, and really trying to belong, and really trying to be polite, and really trying to be respectable, like, those were the values that I was taught, you know, like, you got to be respectable, you got to be polite, you got to be nice, you know, do what it takes to, to have that. And I think that was a compromise my voice that compromised my strength, my real strength, my real ability to  fight for something better, because I was just trying to, like, be accepted. And I think in the last year and a half, two years, almost, I think I’ve found my voice and I’m using that voice. And I’m not afraid to use that voice. So that’s how I’ve changed as I’m willing to use my voice and I’m willing to not belong because I belong to myself, which is I think, the shift right, like, I belong to me, so I’m never gonna be lost.

Claire  28:22

Yeah, you weren’t looking for acceptance or for approval. You were really speaking from your heart and your soul and from your, you know, generations past.

Brandon Goodman 

I think I was also so sad. I think that day was so devastating and tragic. And the fact that he even had to make the video was tragic. And I think that’s why it’s difficult to look at it because I think to your last question, I don’t know if much has changed since that video for me as a person, yes, I’ve changed, but in terms of what I was fighting for, by making that video I don’t know if a lot has changed. Certainly not enough has changed and so I think there’s something still sad about that, that video that like this like call for support. And now you know, here we are, however long later and it’s like, the same bullshit is still happening the same. The same fuckery is still happening. What do I do with that?

Claire 

What are you doing with it today? You’re doing like lots of different kinds of things on Instagram or in your videos Messy Mondays. Like what are you doing now that’s a little different from there?

Brandon Goodman  30:03

Yeah. Messy Mondays is really a big part. Like I like it, you know, after months and months of writing think pieces and done and being on panels and talking about race and gender and sexuality and intersectionality. And just realizing how draining it was I needed some joy. And I was like, oh, yeah, joy is just as much a part of this fight as anything. You know, I think that, you know, Black people getting the chance to laugh, refuels us so that we can go back out and fight for our lives. And so that became much more important to me. And so just in my stories, one day, I was like, tell me something good, or tell me something messy. And the results were quite funny. People had a lot of funny shit to say. I mean, at this point, it’s morphed into a very sex positive space. So we’ve talked to you know, yes, I think yesterday, I tested an electric douche. I didn’t know myself, but just, you know, somebody was like, I got an electric douche. So I was like, Oh, I’ll order one and I’ll test it out. I’m reviewing. Test this electric douche like, sprayed everything over here. So there’s a video of that. But that’s been a great source of joy. And a way for me to also still inspire people, you know, that’s important to me, you know, that’s still always important is that people feel whole and like they belong, and like they are valued and worthy and that’s completely tied to sex, right? Like how you have sex is completely tied to how worthy you feel and how deserving and valuable you feel. You’re going to put up with some shit. If you don’t feel worthy, you’re going to put up with some real fucked up shit if you don’t feel worthy, but the moment you feel your word, you kind of go okay, this fuck boy gotta go.

Claire 

What do you do for yourself to move through shame and find self-acceptance? Like, we all grapple with it, you know, even someone like you who is constantly talking about it and moving through it, but like, what do you need to do for yourself to find those places?

Brandon Goodman  32:09

You know, I really love you know, Brene Brown talks about this, where it’s like, you know, when you talk to somebody else about your shame, obviously, a trusted person about your shame, and they share of themselves, that empathy dissipates the shame, as opposed to holding on to it, which just kind of like, makes the shame grow. And so that’s been really helpful, obviously, Messy Monday is an extension of that community. But finding my own personal community of friends who are very close to me, one of my best friends and I, we have just been having the most incredible conversations about sex and about our partners, without any judgment, or shame about the things that we’re exploring or curious about, or the things that bring us pause. And having that safe space helps dissipate the shame. It helps me go, oh, I’m not crazy and weird. And that’s, I think, why I continue to do Messy Mondays is because people submit some wild fucking banks. And my response is never like, that’s wild get. You know, my response is always like, good for you. You know, maybe not for me, but like, I love that for you. And I think people seeing that validation and that affirmation of their sexual experiences again, as long as you’re not hurting anyone or yourself, I think is healing because it goes, oh, I’m not crazy. Because I have these thoughts, or I want to explore this or I’m interested in kink, or I’m interested in opening my relationship or I’m interested in men now or women like somebody saying, great, beautiful, as opposed to wow, that’s a big fucking deal. Right, like, I think, allows people to release a little bit of their shame and start to explore. Explore more, which I think it’s so important, staying curious.

Claire 

Yeah. You’re doing such amazing work. Like you’re that kind of person in the world who’s like, I’ll go first. I’ll tell you all my shit. Yes. But what that does is it opens up the door for like, what exactly what you’re saying, you know, other people to be like, okay, I’m not crazy. I feel that way too. I did that weird thing.

Brandon Goodman  34:14

Yeah, I hope that I will have created some new systems or been a part of creating some new systems, I have no interest in creating anything by myself. I think that that is a trap or a pitfall I have very every interest in hoping that I am able to build a community of people who are interested in shifting the systems, especially inside of Hollywood and representation, and I hope that we will have been able to make some really significant and long-lasting strides even in five years, just being able to say here’s a new system, a new way of doing things that works and that can expand and grow from here. I hope that I’m a part of that. That changed in that shift.

Claire 

Brandon, thank you so much. You are an amazing person and everything you’re doing in the world, it’s so meaningful.

Brandon Goodman 

Thank you so much for having me.

Claire 

Maybe a lot hasn’t changed since George Floyd died, at least not on a systemic level. But when Brandon told me that what changed about them is that they finally stopped compromising who they were in an effort to belong, that when they found their voice and their strength and stopped being afraid to be who they are, I can’t help but feel like that is some kind of meaningful change. Because maybe that’s what’s missing. Because maybe as a culture, we are all compromising ourselves in an effort to belong, when what would really make us whole would be to acknowledge the simple fact of our humanity, of our flaws, our racism, or sexism, all of our isms. Because when we do that, when we reveal the messy parts of ourselves, bring out into the light, the shameful parts acknowledge our complicity. Maybe that’s when we find the bravery to speak up, to make change, and to become the truest versions of ourselves. For this week’s practice, I want you to think about how public displays of injustice have affected you, what has shifted inside of you since George Floyd died. I know that when I heard about his death, I felt sickened, but also helpless.

Claire  36:20

And I know that I still think about his death all the time, and that I’m striving to find ways to create change big and small. So this week, I also want you to think about ways you can use your voice, even when you’re afraid. And if you’re not sure where to start, here are some simple steps you can take. Listen and educate yourself. Make a point to seek out the voices of people like Brandon and others who talk about what it’s like to experience racism, show up to a community event or protest. And if you have younger siblings or family members, set a good example for them. Try to look for games or books that can help them learn that we all have a right to dignity and safety. There are lots of online, report racist or discriminatory content online. Many social media platforms want their platforms to be safe and empowering for all people of all backgrounds. And think about if there are times at work or in other settings where you could support a black coworker or person of color and speaking up or giving them the attention. And finally, as Brandon told us, don’t forget to pause whenever you’re uncomfortable. As always, thank you for listening. And if you’re a fan of our weekly practices here at New Day, you’ll want to subscribe to our Lemonada Premium channel on Apple podcasts. Each week, you’ll hear a new original practice written by me just for you. Search New Day on Apple podcasts and click the subscribe button.

CREDITS

NEW DAY is a Lemonada Media Original. The show is produced by Jackie Danziger, Liliana Maria Percy Ruiz and Erianna Jiles. Kat Yore is our engineer. Music is by Hannis Brown. Executive producers are Stephanie Wittels Wachs, Jessica Cordova Kramer, Lily Cornell Silver and Claire Bidwell Smith. NEW DAY is produced in partnership with the Well Being Trust, The Jed Foundation and Education Development Center. Help others find our show by leaving us a rating and writing a review. Follow us at @LemonadaMedia across all social platforms, or find me at clairebidwellsmith.com. Join our Facebook group to connect with me and fellow NEW DAY listeners at facebook.com/groups/newdaypod. You can also get bonus content and behind the scenes material by subscribing to Lemonada Premium. You can subscribe right now on the Apple podcast app by clicking on our podcast logo and then the subscribe button. Thanks for listening. See you next week.